TZT19F not recognising NGW-1

[lucas111]

Hi,

A strange behaviour on our Furuno screens and cannot find any thread on that forum regarding similar issues.

We've got 1x TZT19F + 2x TZT12F TZT-3 series with 3.01 firmware.
All connected by ethernet network.

We've installed Sailor 6280 AIS and using 2x NGW-1 to give HDT and receive AIS data over NMEA2000 network.

Basically, we receive AIS output on NMEA2000 network, because I can select the NGW-1-ISO-AIS as a source on our Furuno FL-70 screens.
However the TZT-3 devices (which are also connected to NMEA2000 network) are unable to discover the NGW-1-ISO-AIS on the "source list", nor AIS information appears on the screens.

I've tried with various NGW-1 and no luck with any of them, however in every case FL70 and Marathon NMEA2000 Analyzer software can receive the AIS PGNs with no issues.

On the other hand if we plug another NMEA device - eg. IPG100 to NMEA2000 network - TZT-3 screens discover the device almost immediately.

Any ideas where the problem may be based? Or what would be the first step to troubleshoot the issue?

 

[lucas111]

Funny fact, we've disconnected the screen from the ethernet and NMEA2000.
Created a very simple network - TZT19F and NGW1, terminated properly etc.

Still, TZT19F cannot see the converter nor AIS appears on the screen.

 

[bertrandhartman]

Hi,

I am helping lucas111 on this issue and have just done the following three tests (which add even more mystery to this strange case):

1. Disconnected the TZT19F from Navnet and NMEA2000 and made a totally separate NMEA2000 network consisting of only the TZT19F and the Actisense NGW-1 (along with power-feed and end-resistors of course). The result: the TZT19F still does not detect the NGW-1, nor does it show any AIS data on the plotter.

2. Reconnected everything as ran a few seconds of NMEA2000 logging. The logfiles clearly show PGN 129038 and 129039 messages, so it appears the TZT19F is seeing the PGN's but is somehow simply ignoring them.

3. Connected a NGT-1 to the Navigation PC (running MaxSea), connected it to the NMEA2000 backbone and configured it as an NMEA2000 input in Maxsea. Result: it instantly shows all AIS targets.

Even more strange (and worrying) is that we see exactly the same behaviour on the two other TZT3 MFD's (TZT12F) as well as an older TZT15L (TZT2) which are in all the same network. The TZT3's were running the latest 2.05 firmware, but updating to 3.01 did not change anything. The TZT15L is running software version 8.01. Previously (with the old Furuno 150 AIS + two Furuno IFNMEA2k2 converters) everything worked fine, but sadly the FA150 has died so we had to swap it for the Sailor 6280. We briefly put the older Furuno IF-NMEA2k2 back in, but also that is not detected by the MFD's neither does it show AIS data - but the FI-70's instantly detect it.

We've literally spent days on this now and it is driving us nuts, so I'd be very grateful if anyone has any hints or comments.

Regards,

Bertrand

 

[Johnny Electron]

Connect up the items and conduct a NMEA 2000 recording from the TZT3 to a USB stick using the built in NMEA 2000 recorder. (HOME - SETTINGS - INITAL SETUP - Enable NMEA 2000 Log) Open a support case at www.FurunoUSA.com (Support - Ask a question) and provide the recording to be examined. Furuno released the TZT2 ~2016 and TZT3 ~2020 so these units are not new to the market. They have been seeing Furuno and Acitsense converters for many years on installs. I think someone is overlooking something on the bus or with the device(s). We can normally see what is wrong by looking at the data and playing back the recording.

 

[bertrandhartman]

Hi Johnny,

Many thanks for picking up on this. I have just sent you a copy of the logfile as you requested.

I fully agree with your view that we must be overlooking something, but what is happening (on 4 different screens and with different firmware) does not make any sense. Hopefully the log will provide you with a clue as to what we're doing wrong (or what gremlin found it's way into our NMEA2000 network).

Kind regards,

Bertrand

 

[Johnny Electron]

When you say diffrent firmware; all TZT3 units need to be on the same firmware version. If you are mixing software between MFDs, that wouldn't be recommended.

 

[bertrandhartman]

Actually all TZT3’s are on firmware 3.01, whereas the sole TZT2 unit is on v 8.01. Before upgrading the TZT3’s to 3.01 they were running on 2.05, where the problem also was present - hence my comment regarding the problem being present in various firmware releases.

Sorry for the confusion - hope this clarified things.

 

[Johnny Electron]

Understood. We will look at the data and revert back.

 

[Johnny Electron]

Before we go into the details of what we found with your data; please tell me the thoughts and need behind changing the system instance (not talking about DATA instance or DEVICE instance) on some of the installed NMEA 2000 items. I have found a lot to discuss on this case.

 

[bertrandhartman]

Hi Johnny,

Thanks. The reason for the Device Instance settings has a bit of a history to it. In specific cases (in particular the Maretron FF sensors) we used that in a attempt to separate datastreams from the two generators (each with their own FF100 sensor).

In most other cases the somewhat arbitrary settings are a heritance of issues we had with various FI70's in the past. You may recall this issue (which we raised at the time) which was due to some strange ID duplicates in some of our FI70's (which you helped us to replace at the time). Some settings were never changed since, so it's quite possible things are out of line here. Last but not least we also grabbed some (borrowed) Actisense converters off the shelf last week when we tried to isolate the problems we saw, without paying too much attention of the device ID's they came with.

I hope this helps to explain things a bit, but as I mentioned before we're not NMEA2000 experts so it's quite possible we messed up somewhere.

Kind regards,

Bertrand

 

[Johnny Electron]

Ohhh.. it is messed up for sure. (...more on that later)

The reason for the Device Instance settings has a bit of a history to it.

I understand the reasoning for Device instance change. What I don't understand is why some of the devices have had the "SYSTEM INSTANCE" changed. I am wondering the reasoning behind that because maybe you know something I don't.

 

[Johnny Electron]

Here is a PDF on what we see on this large install. Hopefully it helps you a bit. It might pay to get your local Furuno distributor involved because this is a pretty large install with a lot of conflicts.View attachment nobusdriver.pdf

 

[bertrandhartman]

Thanks Johnny. Quite a mess indeed...

I will start by setting all system instances back to zero and make sure all devices of the same type (FI-70 etc.) will have different device instances. Once that's done I'll test things again and let you know.

There are still a couple of things I do not understand and which made us look in the wrong directions but this is not the place for an NMEA2000 course so I'll focus on getting things running.

To be continued... In the meantime many thanks for your help!

 

[Johnny Electron]

Because we saw the AIS on our TZT3, I would recommend checking the TZT19F has AIS display turned ON; by swiping up from bottom of screen and checking the setting. My guess is they might be hidden because the data was showing for us.

 

[Mehmet Okur]

I had similar issue. Turning off the manual demo in the settings in V3.01, everything was fine. It showed that I was in different places on the map.

 

[Magnetron]

I had similar issue. Turning off the manual demo in the settings in V3.01, everything was fine. It showed that I was in different places on the map.

This is great advise and does trip up some customers, it would be great if it was just that easy too.

However, there's some definite CAN bus issues. NMEA2000 isn't supposed to be complicated, but often it's made out to be. When we replayed the data, we were able to view AIS on our screens so our recommendations remain until we hear an update on the case.

- Maggy