Multiple Transducers with Multiple TZT3's

[hiccup]

So I'm planning on installing dual TZT3 16 screens. I will want to run either 3 or 4 transducers through these units. Likely B175HW, M, and H. Possibly also an 'L' as well but I haven't decided yet.

I'm curious how this all works together. I have a hunch that you can split the screen between two units plugged into one TZT3 but cannot do so with transducers that are plugged into different screens? This is the way it is with Garmin anyway.

For instance, if I have the HW and M plugged into TZT3-16 #1 and let's say the H and L plugged into TZT3-16 #2, I am guessing I can split either display to show HW & M at the same time OR H & L at the same time? But not, for instance, HW & H at the same time?

Also, how easy is it to pause sonar transmission for any single channel? Let's say H and HW are interfering with each other...can you pause sonar transmission on a single channel? Or do you have to pause an entire unit? Or do you have to pause all channels in all units?? Not familiar with this type of control on these units.

 

[Quitsa]

The first thing you need to keep in mind is that you drive only a single H, M, or HW from a single TZT 3. You can combine that high or medium frequency with a Low but you can't connect more thane one H,HW or M to the same MFD sounder.

If you have a high and low or medium and low connected to a single MFD, you can display both frequencies in split screen on any display on the network by choosing the MFD with the transducers as the sonar source. However, if you have a M on one MFD and an HW on a second, you cannot show them side-by-side or split screen on a single MFD. Thus the only single display split screen options you could create would be H+L, M+L, or HW+L.

Pausing transmission has to be done for both frequencies driven on a particular MFD. If you have a DFF-3D or other network sounder, it can be paused independent of what the MFD internal sounder is doing.

Hope this helps. I used to have each of my pair of high and low frequency transducers connected to one MFD. I ended up rewiring them when the new 12 pin splice kit came out so that I could do side-by-side, which was not possible so I have some experience with these issues.

 

[gtstang462002]

Adding to what Quitsa said, you can only have a maximum of 2 sounders operating on the TZT network alongside the DFF3D sounder. Each TZT3 has an internal sounder built into it FYSA.

 

[hiccup]

Thanks for the info but wow that sucks! only L + (H/HW/M)?! much more limited than garmin. :thumbdown

It is what it is and I appreciate the info.

With that in mind I would probably do one unit with L + H and the other with HW. Certainly not ideal and leaves a totally wasted channel.

 

[gtstang462002]

I would challenge that statement that it is much more limited than the Garmins, especially when you throw the DFF3D in the mix. I fish a lot of boats with various systems, most of them are Garmin boats. My preference in order or sounders is Furuno, Lowrance/Simrad, then Garmin. My preference in order for radar would be Furuno, Garmin, Lorance/Simrad. They all have their strong point and weak points, you have to figure out what works best for you.

 

[Quitsa]

One thing to bear in mind is that if you have a DFF-3D, you will have an excellent wide beam medium frequency sounder when it is operated in single beam mode. Its 165Hz, pretty close to a B175M. It is possible run windows with the DFF-3D on one side and the conventional HF or LF or an HW on the other.

I didn't even consider using a B175M with my installation for this reason.

 

[hiccup]

First off, thank you for educating me on the way the system does (and does not) work. I appreciate it.

With that said, while you can 'challenge' the notion that the Furuno system is much more limited than the Garmin system with regards to running multiple transducers, to do so is absurd when you look at the facts. Garmin does not have a two sounder-source limit. Garmin does not have a 1 Low + 1 (H/M) per source limit. My previous Garmin system--which is now 2-3 generations old--had 4 sounder sources with 7 transducers. It was extremely flexible and I felt as if I had all my bases covered plus some with regards to frequencies and cone angles. I expected the latest-and-greatest Furuno to have at least similar capabilities as that older Garmin stuff, so I'm disappointed to learn otherwise.

This forum seems like a great resource but take it from an outsider that just because someone points out a negative associated with your favorite brand should not be a reason to become defensive.

Thank you for pointing out that I could add M coverage utilizing the DFF-3D. While the DFF-3D system does look interesting, it would seem to be a solution that Rube Goldberg would appreciate when just looking for conventional medium chirp sonar. Of course the big problem is the cost. It's hard for me to rationalize the costs associated with these systems in general and that extra ~$3,500 plus install strikes me as particularly painful. However my brain has a way of slowly assimilating to the cost of these things so I will add it to the lists I'm assembling of different system costs w/pros-cons.

How do you find you use the DFF-3D in practice? Has it changed the way you fish in any way? Do you feel it was a worthy investment? I had the Garmin side-scan and down-scan stuff and did not find it useful. I realize the DFF-3D is designed more for deeper water applications which does fit my use case better.

 

[Jsubzero]

:furuno

 

[gtstang462002]

Here is a picture of my display in ~130 ft of water overtop of an old sunken Submarine in the Patuxent river that always holds fish. The top left is the 3D mapping from the DFF3D sounder, top right is the same sounder broken up into 3 traditional downscan segments, Left, Center, and Right of the vessel. The bottom right is my B275LHW operating on the high side in CHIRP. The bottom left is actual bathymetry soundings built from the 3D sounder.

While yes, I would consider Furuno to be my favorite brand, there are some things that I would love to see them implement that Garmin does better. But having actually used all of the major brands, new and old for all of them. I generally feel that Furuno is top of the pack based on real-world experience. Not just fanboyism. And for the life of me, I cannot understand why you would want 7 different transducers hanging under your boat. I have 3 and only use 2. The third one is part of an NMEA2000 multisensor, Depth, Speed, and Temp. From that sensor, the only thing a care about is my water speed. The only additional transducer I can imagine adding at this point would be a 2-3KW with a deep impact to see the ocean floor beyond 1500ft. But I don't really see a need for that since the tuna that I am chasing in the ocean aren't much deeper than 300 ft.

 

[Quitsa]

I had a Garmin system for a few years with a GSD26 black box on 8616 MFDs and a GT51M-TH side/downscan transducer driven by a 7616 MFD. For the past two years, I have used the same B175H and B175L transducers with my TZT 3 16s and have a DFF-3D with a B54 transducer in place of the GT51 mounted in the same spot in the keel.

From my direct experience, I would say there is no comparison between the performance of a DFF-3D and the Garmin GT51 side/down scan for the type of fishing that I do. I think if you spent a lot of time in relatively shallow water (less than 50-60 feet), the Garmin side scan would be adequate. Once you get deeper than that, the DFF-3D is much superior in showing bottom structure and fish. It is also much better for offshore trolling for pelagic fish in showing bait and fish off to the sides with the wide beam in the top 200-300 feet of the water column. The bottom mapping is fantastic for finding structure for bottom fishing in 100+ feet and totally blows away what I saw on the Garmin system, which of course cannot generate the detailed PBG charting that you get with the DFF-3D.

I would also say that the internal TZT3 sounder paints a better picture than I saw with the Garmin GSD26 in terms of bottom detail especially. A lot has to do with signal processing software and Garmin just doesn't compare with Furuno in that respect.

Two of my friends who also fish a lot have DFF-3Ds and also find it extremely valuable. Again, a lot depends on how and where you fish as to whether it is worth the money.

I think people get too carried away with sounder and transducer technology to be honest. A commercial system like a Furuno FCV-1900 with suitably high performance transducers certainly provides a real advantage. I also own a commercial fishing boat that has one and it is quite awe-inspiring to see a very distinct swordfish target near the bottom in 1800 feet. But I have been fishing for 45 years and caught many, many fish with simple hardware such as a 600W 50/200Hz fixed frequency transducer and a Furuno 582L or its predecessor sounders. If you learn the tricks to tune the sounder properly and know how to read what is on the screen, you don't need thousands of dollars of hardware to find fish.

 

[hiccup]

Thanks for the good conversation, I feel like I've learned a ton about the Furuno system (some good, some not so good) in just a few posts.

That said, 'gtstang' you are super defensive and it hurts the conversation. It's just marine electronics I for one have never understood the dramatic allegiance some feel for these things :sorry

I don't really want to spend the time learning the details but I think I will have to suck it up and do a deep dive on the latest simrad systems to really weigh the pros & cons.

I will likely have more questions before pulling the trigger.

 

[Quitsa]

I have always been open-minded in my search for the "latest and greatest" when outfitting my boats with electronics. Over the years I have had Simrad and Garmin hardware as well as Furuno. As with almost everything in life, we have to make trade-offs and decide whether to assign the most weight to certain capabilities, size, cost, display quality, user interface, customer service and support, etc etc.

If radar performance is important to you, it will be hard to match Furuno. That's actually what led me to replace the Garmin hardware I installed on my then new boat five years ago. I was fed up with poor radar.

The good news is that everyone makes pretty decent stuff nowadays so it's hard to go too far wrong.

Furuno owners are more loyal at least in part because the customer support is so good. You just don't hear some of the horror stories that the others produce.

 

[Magnetron]

Furuno owners are more loyal at least in part because the customer support is so good. You just don't hear some of the horror stories that the others produce.

Thanks Quitsa for the kind remarks. Good service is important to the company, we do our best to support our customers with any and all Furuno products they may have onboard. :furuno

Thank you for choosing Furuno, :sail

- Maggy

 

[hiccup]

Quista, I agree w/your take. I've shipped at least 5 Garmin radars back for service so ready to move on to something different.

I don't agree, however, that Furuno customers are worse than any others in terms of brand-pumping. I know guys that bleed Garmin and others that bleed Simrad, etc. Admittedly they all annoy me! I just don't get it. I like marine electronics as much as anyone but do not understand being palpably in the tank for one brand or another.

As you mentioned they all have pros and cons. Furuno certainly has its strong points and therefore there's no reason to pretend it doesn't have areas where the competition has advantages.

I'm guessing if I mentioned something about Camaros someone would get very very cranky :mrgreen:

 

[Quitsa]

I wasn't intending to suggest that Furuno users are necessarily bigger fans than dedicated Garmin or other brand users, just that the strong Furuno customer support contributes to the customer loyalty. My own experiences left me baffled by the attachment some folks have to Garmin. The celebrated "easy to use" interface always seemed easy only if you did not want to get too deep into the settings. I found it counter-intuitive at first and struggled to remember how to find menus without resorting to the not especially good manuals. The radar and sounder performance was mediocre and the proprietary charts were an expensive leg trap.Then there was the repeated hardware failures which you seem to have experienced also. What Garmin is fantastic at doing is marketing.

Over the past decades, we have seen many, many manufacturing companies change from being controlled by engineers and product development people to being run by sales and marketing types with an assist from the bean counters. Furuno is one of the few left in which the folks who design and build the hardware still control what comes out of their factories.

The advent of the networked MFD (which was really pioneered by the Furuno NavNet VX1)tied the customer to a manufacturer much more than in the old days of component hardware because of the proprietary display functions. For many years I had Northstar GPS plotters and Furuno sounders and radar. I used the old Norwegian Simrad sounders too, which were excellent and benefited from the Simrad transducers. That kind of mix and match to get the best doesn't make sense any more for recreational users.

 

[hiccup]

Well you lost with the ease of use comments. I find the Garmin system far easier to navigate and especially customize than anything Furuno has made--with the very notable exception of the TZT3 (and I guess TZT2 with new software). I'm not saying Furuno has completely caught up, just that in my limited seat time w/the TZT3 stuff it is clear they've made huge strides but I'm reserving judgement until I become more familiar.

To me anyone who says the Furuno stuff prior to this latest interface overhaul compared favorably to Garmin ease of use either was just vastly more familiar with the Furuno interface or just cannot be taken seriously. I know if I go Furuno (I would say 80% likely at this case) there will be areas where I will miss my Garmin equipment and customizing layouts is one. Does Furuno have the equivalent of Garmin's 'Smart Mode'? I assume they must at this point but just want to confirm.

I also remember fondly the days of mixed systems...but like many fond memories they are better left in the past. The abilities of today's systems is amazing compared to those days.

Thanks for the dialog I appreciate it.