Nav300 Configuration questions

[hmbjack]

I am getting ready to upgrade my current NavPilot511 system to a Nav300 set-up and would appreciate your thoughts and advice on what I plan to do.

This is for a 33 foot boat with twin Yamaha 300's with two steering rams.

My current system is as follows:

NavPilot 511 (from 2005)
Brand New Seastar Smartstick RRU (works good per multimeter range of motion from .14 to 2.0 center to 4.0)
PG-500 Fluxgate Heading Sensor (from 2005)
Furuno HRP16-12 12V pump (from 2005)

Twin TZTouch 3 12" MFD's on a NMEA2000 backbone with the below two components
Furuno Satellite Compass SCX20 + Furuno 24" Dome Radar (DRS4DNXT)

Questions:
1. Should I connect the RRU to the NAV300 via Furuno's Junction Box FI-5002? I think yes...
2. Can the Nav300 get it's Heading Data from the SCX20? Or must it get it from the PG-500? Or a new PG-700?
3. My existing pump (HRP16-12) seems to work well. Do AP Pumps like this last a long time or should I upgrade it to a HRP17-12?
Hint - no matter what I do with my current NavPilot511 system, I keep getting a "Rudder Driver Error" in the installation set-up process.
Maybe I'll need a new pump no matter what system I use. 18 years might be too much to ask of any pump. I however removed the electric motor from my existing pump. Disassembled the motor and the brushes and stator looked very clean inside after 18 years of use. I reassembled it and it tested perfectly. I wonder if the manifold on the pump somehow goes bad? Any thoughts on this?

 

[FishTech]

1. The RRU cannot connect to the FI-5002. It will connect directly to the NavPilot 300. You NavPilot 300 will be able to share that rudder data across NMEA 2000 when complete.
2. The SCX20 is an excellent choice for heading data for your NavPilot 300. You do not need to add a PG700. The PG500 would require a converter to translate the NMEA 0183 to NMEA 2000.
3. You can attempt to reuse the pump and save some money and a lot of effort. If it fails to work correctly, replace it. If it were me, I might consider retiring that one after 18 years. Sorry, that answer probably doesn't help you much. haha


This could be a bad pump, bad rudder sensor, bad hydraulic system, or failing driver.
Age is a good thing to consider.
Inspect your steering lines and check valves. I've seen worn out steering lines that expand a bit during use.
Connect your pump directly to battery power and see how long it takes to get from hard over to opposite hard over. Then reverse the polarity and do it again. 10 seconds is the sweet spot, 7-13 is a valid range. If it falls in this range then it would seem like a RRU problem. You measured the RRU and it seems good. Ensure that the magnet is close enough to the stick at all times throughout the turning range. If everything else seems good, it could be a failure in the NavPilot 511.
To answer your last question, yes, manifolds can fail as well. When I was a dealer we would usually try to replace just the motor. Once or twice a year we would find bad manifolds in the set. It could be anything like a bad seal, rust, or debris.

 

[hmbjack]

Thank you FishTech!

I will test my 18 year old pump as you suggest. Great advice!

 

[hmbjack]

Update:

I tested my Pump today by connecting the red and black pump wires directly to 12V Power and it worked perfectly in both directions. About 10 seconds from one side to the other.

Thank you FishTech - I think my 18 year old pump is good - at least for the time being...

I think my "Rudder Driver Error" might be happening because my AP Controller (FAP-5011) lacks a terminator plug on the unused socket on the back. I read that if only one Controller is used, the empty socket needs to be terminated. Furuno Tech Support told me the Controller will not communicate properly with the AP's CPU. So, I'm working on this next. Fingers crossed that this will fix my issue.

 

[hmbjack]

Very Frustrated here. Ugh!

Even after adding a terminator Plug as described above, I keep getting "Rudder Driver Failed" in my Dockside Set-up Rudder Test.
During the test, my twin engines jiggle a bit and move slowly to one side, stop, then move slowly to center, stop, then I get the alarm "Rudder Driver Failed"

When I bypass the pump wires to 12V leads, the engines swing nicely hard over to hard over in 10 seconds.
So, my pump is working fine. The issue must be somewhere inside the Pilot itself or perhaps the Controller/Display Unit.

I opened an RMA and shipped both units to Camas, Washington for evaluation. My hope is they find something wrong with the unit somewhere. A Furuno Tech Support told me yesterday it "could" be something in the boat. But my hydraulic system is good, my RRU checks out (see above) and pump works great both ways when direct wired. The only other possibility is the data cable between the Pilot and the Control/Display.

Any ideas for me?

 

[hmbjack]

I am also told by Furuno Tech support The the NAVPilot 300 is not spec'd for a HRP-16-12 Pump (HRP-11 yes but not a 16 or 17).

I'm told I would have to bump it up to the NAV 711. Is this true?

I watched a YouTube with a NavPilot 300 going on a boat with quad Mercury 300's.
Of course YouTube may not be credible but what the heck...

 

[hmbjack]

any ideas for me on the above Rudder Driver Error?

 

[Kraken]

The HRP16-12 (Now the HRP17-12) draws too many amps for the NAV Pilot 300. The NP300 can handle up to 10 amps continuous and up to 20 amps for 5 seconds. The HRP17-12 hardover current is 34 amps which is too much for the NP300. The pumps that will work with the NP300 are listed on the FURUNOUSA website under the NP300 product page. Rudder drive error usually means an issue with the pump or the RRU.

 

[hmbjack]

"Rudder drive error usually means an issue with the pump or the RRU" <<<<<<< Thank you Kraken!

Question: Is having a very LONG wire on the RRU a problem?

With my Multi-meter at the NavPilot-511's main board, I see .14 hard over then 2.0 at center then 4.1 hard over.
But - for convenience I butt spliced the long 3 wire cable that came with my New RRU to the existing, 18 year old, cable zip tied inside the boat. In other words, I have basically a double length 3 wire cable from my RRU to the AP's main board.

Could this cause an issue in the signal? Is there some measurement I can do?

 

[Kraken]

In your case the pump draws too many amps for the pilot and they are not compatible. Anytime you have a wire run that is longer than what is recommended you open yourself up to issues. You would want to follow ABYC recommendations for wire gauge over distance to ensure you have the correct wiring.