100 Watt NXT (DRS12a - NXT) vs 200 Watt (DRS25a-NXT)?

[cooper]

Anyone have comments on the real world differences with these? Regardless of which I pick, it will be with a 6' array.

Currently I run a 12KW 2006 Furuno radar and am really happy with the results. That said, i'm changing out the entire system hence the radar with it. While the 200 Watt NXT is tempting, from what i've read, i'm not sure I need the extra power.

Thanks in advance,

 

[kicker]

What do you use your radar for, detecting boats, birds, landmasses, and weather systems?

 

[cooper]

All the above. I do a lot of offshore fishing so birds / weather is important. I also do a fair bit of running at night.

 

[kicker]

If chasing and being able to pick up birds at a distances is important for you, I would recommend going with the DRS25ANXT. Birds are very small objects and the more energy we can put onto it, the better and likely hood they will appear on your TZT screen.

Either option you're going to be able to pick up birds at a distances but as I mentioned above, we might be able to put more energy onto the birds with a DRS25ANXT compared to the 12ANXT, giving us a better chance to have them appear on the screen clearer.

 

[Quitsa]

I can't answer your comparison question not having any experience withe the 100W uni but I have used a DRS25A-NXT with a 6' array all summer and fall since installing it in late May. It sounds like my uses are similar to what you do with the radar, lots of offshore pelagic fishing.

You won't be disappointed if you get the 200W unit. I painted individual thunderstorm cells on a front line at the full 96 mile range very clearly. It is the best radar for weather that I have ever had including a 12kW Furuno magnetron. It shows birds as well as any 25kW magnetron I have sed. We ran 8 miles to a well-defined large flock of birds on a calm day. Even with a sea running, you can mark small groups of shearwaters and small petrels quite well at 5-6 miles with some manual tuning.

 

[hdav94]

I recently completed this same upgrade this past summer going from a 4 foot DRS12A to a 4 foot DRS12a-NTX then to a 4 foot DRS25a-NXT. All I can say is I wish I just went straight to the DRS25a-NXT since it would have same me a lot of money. Only had the DRS12NXT on my boat for about a month before I sold it and got a DRS25NXT.

Basically what everyone is saying is correct. The DRS25aNXT is an amazing radar and has blown away all my expectation. You will not be disappointed in it at all.

Now while the DRS12aNXT is also just as amazing in what it can do, I felt it was defiantly not as good as my DRS12A. What I didn't like about it was after years of using my 12kw the 12NXT just wasn't giving me the results when it came to marking buoys, small boats/kayaks, birds and other vessels. After jumping up to the 25NXT I noticed the opposite results. The 25NXT was showing me things I could have only dream of from the 12kw unit.

Hope this helps. If you have any other question feel free to PM me.

 

[brai]

Thanks for the answers .
Could you tell me how far away do you see birds? With the sea calm. ?
How tall is your boat?
My boat is about 9 feet .
I am thinking of acquiring a radar and the bird mode function is one of the reasons to buy it.

Thanks a lot
:capt

 

[Quitsa]

Thanks for the answers .
Could you tell me how far away do you see birds? With the sea calm. ?
How tall is your boat?
My boat is about 9 feet .
I am thinking of acquiring a radar and the bird mode function is one of the reasons to buy it.

Thanks a lot
:capt

I have been using a DRS25A-NXT with a six foot array since May. My unit is about 10-11 feet above the waterline. Generally, I have been marking small groups of birds up to about 6 miles or so out. One time I saw a big flock of shearwaters at about 8 miles on a calm day. I don’t really much care for the bird mode and tune manually, which I think does better. Probably I should try it some more but I am so used to manual tuning that I did not have much patience for bird mode.

 

[brai]

Quitsa ,

Thank you very much ,for your reply, !!!!

best regards

 

[Quitsa]

I would be curious if Johnny Electron or another Furuno moderator could tell us if there are some features of the bird mode that are not easy to replicate with the normal "manual bird mode" tuning of turning off the sea state and rain filters, turning on echo trails, and increasing the gain to the point at which the display is heavily speckled and then backing off a little.

I had seen somewhere that one of the other manufacturers' bird mode also changes other settings "invisibly" such as the transmission parameters.

 

[gtstang462002]

Given that you are probably spending a fair bit on the rest of your electronics, I would say that it is probably worthwhile to splurge the extra $1600ish on the extra 100 watts of power just for any of the capabilities that you will gain. The radar is the last item that I am waiting on for delivery (back-ordered, probably mid-January) for my build that I am currently installing.

 

[brai]

Thanks for the answers .
Could you tell me how far away do you see birds? With the sea calm. ?
How tall is your boat?
My boat is about 9 feet .
I am thinking of acquiring a radar and the bird mode function is one of the reasons to buy it.

Thanks a lot
:capt

I have been using a DRS25A-NXT with a six foot array since May. My unit is about 10-11 feet above the waterline. Generally, I have been marking small groups of birds up to about 6 miles or so out. One time I saw a big flock of shearwaters at about 8 miles on a calm day. I don’t really much care for the bird mode and tune manually, which I think does better. Probably I should try it some more but I am so used to manual tuning that I did not have much patience for bird mode.

Hi Quitsa , Thank you very much for your reply ,
Please can you tell me :
The distance you have from the Radar to the Copckit ?
The distance from the radar to the VHF antena and the heading sensor ??
I would like to ad the six foot array .
Thank you very much !!!!

 

[Quitsa]

The pedestal of the radar is mounted on the hardtop so it is directly above the main helm. The pedestal is about six feet from the VHF antennas (I have one on each side), which are aft of the radar. The heading sensor (SCX-20 satellite compass) is on the tower sunshade about 6 feet aft and 8 feet above the radar pedestal.

The closest thing to the radar is part of the tower pipework, which the antenna tips clear by about six inches or so at the closest point as it rotates. I have never seen any evidence of interference with the VHF or AIS transponder that shares one of the VHF antennas, which is the only equipment within the radar beam and thus could potentially be affected.

 

[brai]

The pedestal of the radar is mounted on the hardtop so it is directly above the main helm. The pedestal is about six feet from the VHF antennas (I have one on each side), which are aft of the radar. The heading sensor (SCX-20 satellite compass) is on the tower sunshade about 6 feet aft and 8 feet above the radar pedestal.

The closest thing to the radar is part of the tower pipework, which the antenna tips clear by about six inches or so at the closest point as it rotates. I have never seen any evidence of interference with the VHF or AIS transponder that shares one of the VHF antennas, which is the only equipment within the radar beam and thus could potentially be affected.

Quitsa, Thank you very much for your reply.

 

[Tailin strange]

now that we've established the DRS25a-NXT 200 W as a serious player in the bird finding world, how will it compare to the same 4 ft antenna 25KW X class magnetron radar? if its on par with it, I need to make a change with my build coming up but I can't swing a 6 footer

 

[Johnny Electron]

Our testing has shown that the magnetron is slightly better at finding birds but they are almost identical performance. I have customers that prefer one over the other for one reason or another but for target detection they are really close. The advantage of the NXT is not replacing the Magnetron on a regular basis and having the dopper advanced features.

 

[Tailin strange]

So if a 4ft 25kw x class is say a 10/10 at finding birds is the nxt 200 watt 4 foot a 9.5/10? Or less than that. If it’s that close, I may be making a swap to the nxt for its other benefits. How often does the magnetron need to be replaced on the x class?

 

[Quitsa]

So if a 4ft 25kw x class is say a 10/10 at finding birds is the nxt 200 watt 4 foot a 9.5/10? Or less than that. If it’s that close, I may be making a swap to the nxt for its other benefits. How often does the magnetron need to be replaced on the x class?

I can answer for a 6' DRS25A-NXT versus a 6' 25kW magnetron. Using your approach, I would say for birds if the magnetron is 10/10 the NXT is probably a 10/10 at ranges out to 4 miles or so. At longer ranges, the magnetron is a little better, so maybe at 6-8 miles the NXT is 9 or 9.5/10. In real life, I would say they are very comparable at least for me because I don't chase birds at super long ranges where I fish -- the tuna will be gone by the time I get there!

On the other side of the question, I find that the NXT is significantly better for navigation because of the improved ARPA/Doppler target tracking and ability to show targets at very close range. It is also great at showing thunderstorms and rain at very, very long ranges, better than I recall seeing with the magnetron.

Also bear n mind that it is within the realm of possibility that Furuno may refine the performance of the DRS25A-NXT through software updates since it is at the beginning of the product cycle. There is a whole lot of signal processing going on with these radars and the software is an important aspect of performance.

 

[Johnny Electron]

Well said.

 

[Tailin strange]

So if a 4ft 25kw x class is say a 10/10 at finding birds is the nxt 200 watt 4 foot a 9.5/10? Or less than that. If it’s that close, I may be making a swap to the nxt for its other benefits. How often does the magnetron need to be replaced on the x class?

I can answer for a 6' DRS25A-NXT versus a 6' 25kW magnetron. Using your approach, I would say for birds if the magnetron is 10/10 the NXT is probably a 10/10 at ranges out to 4 miles or so. At longer ranges, the magnetron is a little better, so maybe at 6-8 miles the NXT is 9 or 9.5/10. In real life, I would say they are very comparable at least for me because I don't chase birds at super long ranges where I fish -- the tuna will be gone by the time I get there!

On the other side of the question, I find that the NXT is significantly better for navigation because of the improved ARPA/Doppler target tracking and ability to show targets at very close range. It is also great at showing thunderstorms and rain at very, very long ranges, better than I recall seeing with the magnetron.

Also bear n mind that it is within the realm of possibility that Furuno may refine the performance of the DRS25A-NXT through software updates since it is at the beginning of the product cycle. There is a whole lot of signal processing going on with these radars and the software is an important aspect of performance.

How do the actual bird marks differ from the two units.(Nxt and x class) I've used a buddies simrad halo and it would faintly mark them compared to their 10kw magnetron, so faint you had to really be paying attention to the unit. Super small blips and some of them were large packs. I'm seriously leaning on going with the 200 watt 25anxt and I have a few months before the boat starts to be built ( Freeman 34). Finish date is around May this year.