TZT3 feedback

[Lady&TheScamp]

After a lot of reading and research, I think I am ready to start the process of upgrading electronics on my 24' center console. I am in the beginning phases of pricing everything out and checking lead times, but I am hoping to add 2 TZT3 12" displays, SCX-20 satellite compass, DFF3D, 165T-50/200-TM260 transducer, Sirius weather, navpilot 300 autopilot, and maybe the NXT dome radar if I have any room left in the budget.

We almost exclusively bottom fish out of the Florida panhandle. A typical day for us would be catching bait in 25 - 50 feet, then heading out for bottom fishing anywhere from 80' - 350'. We are also interested in doing a little deep-dropping a little further out, probably no more than 900' depth.

I'm hoping to get a little feedback on some of these items before placing the order.

-With a 24' center console, is transom mount my only option for DFF3D capable transducer? I'm under the impression the thru-hull with fairing block and pocket mount options are really meant for larger boats. Anyone have real-world feedback on this transducer?

- Does anyone use the Drift-it/Fish-it in combination with autopilot to hold over a spot? I'm sure wind and current will play a factor, but I was wondering how well these features would help hold over a spot so I just need to adjust the throttle in/out of gear.

-When running on plane between spots, would I be able to use either the 3d history or triple beam view to watch for and mark new spots?

My goal would be to use PBG to map out some new areas not currently covered by CMOR or Strikelines and also make it easier to see where fish are holding on a spot. I look forward to your responses and any feedback you might have.

 

[FishTech]

Transducer options are much larger than people realize if you are willing to get creative. Many people worldwide make their own transom mount rigs for whatever transducer they want. You can also have transducers built into the keel/bottom of the boat by someone skilled in fiberglass. This method is one of the best ways to mount a transducer and can offer the best, underway performance.
The good news is that the range of water depth you mention is just fine with a 1kW transducer option.
Fish-It/Drift-It do not work with the autopilot. However there is Sabiki Mode in the autopilot that will work for you. In this mode you put the stern to the wind and current and the pilot will hold your direction. You only need to adjust throttle to hold position.
You can look at Triple Beam and 3D History at the same time AND mark spots on either. These spots will show up on the plotter and you can return to them at any time.
Hope this helps you out. Or at least provides a good start.

 

[mattology]

After a lot of reading and research, I think I am ready to start the process of upgrading electronics on my 24' center console. I am in the beginning phases of pricing everything out and checking lead times, but I am hoping to add 2 TZT3 12" displays, SCX-20 satellite compass, DFF3D, 165T-50/200-TM260 transducer, Sirius weather, navpilot 300 autopilot, and maybe the NXT dome radar if I have any room left in the budget.

We almost exclusively bottom fish out of the Florida panhandle. A typical day for us would be catching bait in 25 - 50 feet, then heading out for bottom fishing anywhere from 80' - 350'. We are also interested in doing a little deep-dropping a little further out, probably no more than 900' depth.

I'm hoping to get a little feedback on some of these items before placing the order.

-With a 24' center console, is transom mount my only option for DFF3D capable transducer? I'm under the impression the thru-hull with fairing block and pocket mount options are really meant for larger boats. Anyone have real-world feedback on this transducer?

- Does anyone use the Drift-it/Fish-it in combination with autopilot to hold over a spot? I'm sure wind and current will play a factor, but I was wondering how well these features would help hold over a spot so I just need to adjust the throttle in/out of gear.

-When running on plane between spots, would I be able to use either the 3d history or triple beam view to watch for and mark new spots?

My goal would be to use PBG to map out some new areas not currently covered by CMOR or Strikelines and also make it easier to see where fish are holding on a spot. I look forward to your responses and any feedback you might have.

I have a very similar setup to what you are describing

unfortunately I don't have autopilot so i can't comment on that.

about the fastest I can go with consistent dff3d readings is about 15 kts, but I only have a transom mounted 165T-TM54

For what you are describing, I think you'll be very happy with the setup.

 

[Lady&TheScamp]

I think I have read all of your posts and I am glad to hear you think the setup will work for me. I think my biggest question at this point is the transducer. When you say you get consistent dff3d readings up to 15 knots, are you referring specifically to the pbg/3d rendering? I'm curious if it's possible to still read bottom in the triple beam view when running at a faster speed, say 25- 30 knots.

I suppose my other concern is the performance of the 50/200 B164 components of the transducer. I have seen pretty mediocre reviews of this transducer online, but I'm thinking for only about $100 more, it probably makes sense to get the combo. I know you did not get the combo with your setup, was it because you already had another transducer or were there other factors?

 

[mattology]

I think I have read all of your posts and I am glad to hear you think the setup will work for me. I think my biggest question at this point is the transducer. When you say you get consistent dff3d readings up to 15 knots, are you referring specifically to the pbg/3d rendering? I'm curious if it's possible to still read bottom in the triple beam view when running at a faster speed, say 25- 30 knots.

I suppose my other concern is the performance of the 50/200 B164 components of the transducer. I have seen pretty mediocre reviews of this transducer online, but I'm thinking for only about $100 more, it probably makes sense to get the combo. I know you did not get the combo with your setup, was it because you already had another transducer or were there other factors?

I already had a b164 thru hull on my boat, so I did not need to get the combo transducer...

Instead i picked up a TM260 , so I would get the B260 elements and thus have bottom discrimination and accufish.

On my personal boat, I do not get good readings out of the transom mounted transducers above say 15 knots or so. I use my thru hull B164 to read bottom at speed. If I pick up something, I mark the spot, i slow down, switch over to my TM260, fire up the DFF3D, and PBG the area while also looking for fish marks to decide whether or not I want to fish the area.

These days I really like the new expanded color range mode that the tzt3's offer in manual gain. I am able to easily see fish holding close to bottom as well as read the strengths of a second echo when running in manual gain, manual range, and marker zoom mode. Because of this, I find myself using bottom discrimination less and less.

As a result, I may decide to replace the B164 with an SS264H for it's B260 200khz elements in a high speed thru hull application, virtually the same foot print as my typical B164, but with even greater sensitivity. This will allow me to get rid of my TM260, and I can instead go to an SS905 chirp side scan transducer.

However, with my recent failure of my DFF3D system, everything may change. I have to confirm what the problem is. If I did in fact blow up my transducer by accidentally leaving the system transmitting while the boat is out of the water, I may take a hard look at installing a pocket mounted 165T-CM54 or equivalent...

That may give me the higher speed performance I am looking for.

 

[Quitsa]

I have a 165T-B54 mounted in a pocket on the keel with my DFF3D. It will read pretty well up to about 25 kts. It holds bottom above that speed (my WOT is 40 kts) but starts to develop a fair bit of noise on screen.

I am not sure what speed the PBG stops working because there is a setting that shuts it down above a defined speed. In my case it is set to 15 kts so it stops doing the PBG at that speed.

I don't see why you could not have a pocket mount B54 on a 24 foot boat if there is good access to the bilge for a foot or more forward of the transom and you don't have anything that would disturb the water flow. I would not go with a combo version on a small boat, however.

I would give serious consideration to a B175H and B175L pair for the regular sounder. The B175H will do much better for bottom fishing than the B164. Mine reads down to 5-600 feet. The B175L at 1kW works fine at our canyon depths of up to 2,000 feet.

 

[Lady&TheScamp]

Thanks for the info. After talking with my dealer/installer today, I am going to take a look at the transom mount dff3d transducer and combine that with a thru-hull transducer that will work well for bottom fishing. Haven't ruled out the pocket mount option either, but I have a feeling I will be happier with a dedicated thru-hull transducer better suited for analyzing marks I locate with the dff3d at slow speeds.

Realistically, the only scenario I could see trying to use the dff3d transducer at higher speeds would be to watch for good marks within the 120 degree cone while running out or between spots. With current lead times in the 3-4 month range, it sounds like I have plenty of time to think it over and research before I need to make a final decision on the transducer.

 

[Lady&TheScamp]

My dealer/installer wrote up a quote with the 165T-TM64 transom mount DFF3d transducer and a B175M thru-hull transducer. Does the frequency range of the B175M overlap too much with the DFF3D transducer or would this be a good combination? I was looking at the H version as well, but not sure what will serve me best. Primary use is bottom fishing out to maybe 400' depth, but do want to occasionally (maybe couple times a year) deep drop out to around 900'. Since I am getting the DFF3d system, I think it would make sense to pair it with a transducer where they complement each other well. Thanks for all of the input so far!

 

[FishTech]

The B175H is actually the transducer that would overlap. B175M chirps from 85-135kHz while the B54 operates on 165kHz. While this sounds good on paper, a few people with similar transducers have seen interference with the Medium CHIRP / DFF3D combo. However, their transducers chirped 80-130kHz which covers a half harmonic of the B54. Interference reject setting can help mitigate this, as well as Key Pulse kits. Both have their trade offs.

 

[Quitsa]

My dealer/installer wrote up a quote with the 165T-TM64 transom mount DFF3d transducer and a B175M thru-hull transducer. Does the frequency range of the B175M overlap too much with the DFF3D transducer or would this be a good combination? I was looking at the H version as well, but not sure what will serve me best. Primary use is bottom fishing out to maybe 400' depth, but do want to occasionally (maybe couple times a year) deep drop out to around 900'. Since I am getting the DFF3d system, I think it would make sense to pair it with a transducer where they complement each other well. Thanks for all of the input so far!

If your objective in having the B175M is to use it for bottom fishing in water that is 400' or less, I think it is not the best choice especially since you will have a DFF-3D. The beam width of the B175M is much greater than the B175H. The resolution of fish holding close to structure at the bottom will be much better with the B175H. You don't need the wide bandwidth of the B175M to locate structure -- the DFF-3D will do that for and show a lot more bottom than the B175M. I do quit a bit of bottom fishing myself and rely heavily on the B175H.

The B175M is good for people who do a lot of trolling or are trying to get bottom detail in relatively deep water out to 800-1000 feet and do not have the benefit of the DFF-3D for trolling.

As for the frequency overlap, the interference is more or less completely eliminated if you set the filter to high on both machines. I don't have a key pulse cable.

I have no trouble reading bottom at 500' with my B175H.

 

[Lady&TheScamp]

I was leaning towards the 175H for all of the reasons you said, so it's good to get confirmation you are happy with the setup for bottom fishing. Are you using CHIRP with the 175H or a fixed frequency? I think I read somewhere you can use the 175H with a fixed frequency around 200Khz and that would take full advantage of the narrow cone. In your experience, do you prefer CHIRP for bottom detail and target separation or do you use a fixed frequency?

With 2 TZT3 12's, would the best configuration be to run the DFF3d to one unit and the B175H to the other unit? If so, is there a way to still view the DFF3d data (like triple beam view for example) on the 2nd unit along with the b175?

 

[Quitsa]

I was leaning towards the 175H for all of the reasons you said, so it's good to get confirmation you are happy with the setup for bottom fishing. Are you using CHIRP with the 175H or a fixed frequency? I think I read somewhere you can use the 175H with a fixed frequency around 200Khz and that would take full advantage of the narrow cone. In your experience, do you prefer CHIRP for bottom detail and target separation or do you use a fixed frequency?

With 2 TZT3 12's, would the best configuration be to run the DFF3d to one unit and the B175H to the other unit? If so, is there a way to still view the DFF3d data (like triple beam view for example) on the 2nd unit along with the b175?

The DFF-3D is a network sounder and thus would be available equally to any unit on the network (as would the regular sounder with the B175H if you designate it as the sounder source on the MFD. The DFF-3D does not use a transducer port so you can connect the B175H to whichever one is convenient.

I have 16" displays with a bit more screen real estate but you can probably try what usually I do. For inshore or bottom fishing, I run the conventional sounder with the B175H full screen on one MFD, sometimes in bottom zoom mode with a split screen. On the other, I use the three panel split with the chartplotter in the larger window, the DFF-3D single or triple beam in one of the smaller windows and the DFF-3D "map history" in the other.

Fishing offshore for tuna and other pelagics, I usually have the DFF-3D triple beam in full screen on one display and the other in split screen with the chartplotter on one half and the B175H conventional on the other. In deep water at the canyons where the DfFF-3D and is beyond its range, I run the B175L full screen and the chartplotter and radar on the other.

As fir frequencies with the B175H, in shallower water for bottom fishing I often use a fixed 210Hz or just use the auto CHIRP. For tuna, I use a fixed 180Hz or auto CHIRP. The differences are not all that great but I do think the 210Hz provides more detail close to the bottom and the 180Hz shows tuna better.

 

[Lady&TheScamp]

That makes sense and I think I would be using the screens and settings similar to how you are using them. Looks like it will be 3 to 4 months before I can actually get everything installed, but I'm sure I will have more questions about settings and using the system once I do get my hands on it. Thanks again, I will be sure to report back once everything is installed and I can test it out.

 

[Quitsa]

The B175H is actually the transducer that would overlap. B175M chirps from 85-135kHz while the B54 operates on 165kHz. While this sounds good on paper, a few people with similar transducers have seen interference with the Medium CHIRP / DFF3D combo. However, their transducers chirped 80-130kHz which covers a half harmonic of the B54. Interference reject setting can help mitigate this, as well as Key Pulse kits. Both have their trade offs.

What are the trade offs of the external KP cable versus setting the filter to high? I am thinking of getting one.

 

[mattology]

The external key phasor / key pulsor eliminates interference between two sounders / transducers operating with conflicting / interfering frequencies at the sacrifice of heaving compensation. the two are not able to be used at the same time.

 

[Quitsa]

The external key phasor / key pulsor eliminates interference between two sounders / transducers operating with conflicting / interfering frequencies at the sacrifice of heaving compensation. the two are not able to be used at the same time.

Thanks. That is a rather serious downside to the external KP. I found the instructions for the KP cable on the website and it says that it will also slow the transmission rate. That's another big negative.

Has anyone out there used the KP cable with the TZT 3 internal sounder and DFF-3D? What happens in real life?