Navpilot 300 pump

[Mangler]

I have finally settled on the Navpilot 300, but I just noticed a new pump on the furuno site. I initially planned on getting the HRP11-12 with the FPS8 power steering module. I was making a few final checks and found a new pump option the PUMPOCT10-16. I am not sure I really need power assist, but I was going to add it while I was tearing everything apart. This will be my first autopilot, so I am not familiar with either pump. Any reason why I should choose one over the other? I do save a lot going with the PUMPOCT (Octopus). Is the only decision power steering vs no power steering? I just want to make sure I am not missing anything. I even looked at the SeaStar power assist, but that seems to complicate things.

For extra info, I have dual Uflex helms with a single rear cylinder. The current set up with twin 250's is manageable, but power steering seems like a good idea while I am at it. Thanks for any suggestions.

 

[Flatline]

Mangler,
Thank you for your inquiry.
Selecting the correct hydraulic pump/drive for any autopilot system is critical to the performance of the pilot. "...I have dual Uflex helms with a single rear cylinder". You would need to ensure that the volume (measured in cubic inches of displacement) of you particular cylinder is within the min and max capacity of any pump you select.
As far as the differences in the Octopus pump versus Accusteer HRP pump, keep in mind that the FPS8 module ONLY works on the HRP pump. In addition to the power assit steering , the FPS8 module is also required for the Safe Helm operation. In this mode the pilot can automatically disengage when the steering wheel is manually moved and reengage once the operator holds a steady course for a predetermined amount of time (useful when dodging an object in you path for example)

 

[Mangler]

Thanks for info. The uflex cylinder I have, UC128 SVS, has a cylinder volume of 7.3 cu in, so I would need the HRP 11-12 pump. I like the safe helm option with power assist, but not sure it is worth the extra cost. You brought up a good point- I thought the all autopilots would automatically disengage if you turned the wheel, How would you disengage the autopilot without safe helm? Would I need to manually turn it off to avoid an obstacle?

 

[Johnny Electron]

You would hit the "standby" button (or stop navigation on the plotter sending the data) to stop the active pilot navigation.

 

[Mangler]

I have received the Navpilot 300, HRP 11-12 and the FPS8! I have a few questions after going over the installation instructions.

- How do I connect the FPS8 to the Novpilot 300? I am guessing I connect the BRN, BLK,BLU combos as instructed for the Navpilot 700 to the General IN BWN,BLK,BLU combos of the Nav 300? I would then have the PPL and GRY open/not used?
- How loud is the pump? I can't find any videos with it running so I can get an idea how loud it is. I am asking because I have a good spot for the pump under the second helm(against cabin), and would greatly simplify the install. If it is loud I will move it to the back near the motors where it will be less detectable. I know this tough to answer "how loud is too loud", but I don't have any reference.

- can I use my seastar power purge jr to bleed the system once I get everything put together and running? I don't want to damage anything during bleeding, but I want to use the power purge if I can.(one person, fast, easy, no mess)
- any suggestions on what cable/wire I should use to extend the FPS8 (6 wires) to the Nav 300? Signal wire looks close...
Thanks for the help, appreciate it!

 

[Johnny Electron]

The pumps are pretty quiet even if you mount it up near the helm. You must use one of the HRP pumps to support the FPS8. It mounts on top of the HRP pump.


It is wired as shown on page S-1 of the pilot manual. The wires from the pressure sensors of the FPS8 are wired up to the wiring of the NP300 "General In" port.

 

[Mangler]

Thanks. I guess I didn't review S-1.

Do I leave the wires open for the Event witch shown on S-1 (PPL and GRY)?

Any concerns using a power purge to bleed the system?

 

[Johnny Electron]

If you are not using the event switch, yes; they will be left open. I highly encourage a power purge. That is the best way to get all the air out of the system. I don't think I have ever seen a better or faster bleed of a steering system.

 

[Mangler]

After many hours, the navpilot is installed. I have completed the initial setup, up to dockside setup for fantum feedback. The pump is functioning properly and limits have been set. The only issue I have is the setup of the safe helm and power assist. I made the connections, but I am failing the Helm Senor test. I check the wires and they match (BRN,BLK,BLU) combos. I don't think it is a connection issue, but that is still on the table. The PPL/GRY combo is open and not connected to anything. Anything else I can verify? I am not sure what to try next aside from cutting, re splice and verify continuity to each wire (wires were crimped and soldered).

Will power assist work without this setup?

 

[Johnny Electron]

I know the boat isn't moving but does you SOG show Zeros or does it show dashes? The pilot must have speed data and the FPS8 won't work correctly if your SOG is dashes at the pilot.

Another thing to look at is the LED lights on the FPS8 flow sensors. (Shhh this is tech secret) There is a little metal screw on sleeve that covers and supports the hydraulic flow sensors of the FPS8. These are important and should be put back after troubleshooting but you can screw the sleeves off the sensor and push it up the cable out of your way during troubleshooting. You will find each pressure sensor has a small LED embedded in the thread of the sensor. You will need someone to turn the helm but with the pilot ON, you should see the LED light up as you turn the helm. One sensor will light when turning Port and the other will light when turning Starboard. They both should not be lit at the same time and they should light when turning. If you find one doesn't light, it could be someone has it in too far and it has no flow under the sensor. (or it is too far out) You really have to be careful not to drive the sensor into the block too far because if it bottoms out and too much pressure is applied it will damage the sensor. If they are not lighting; it could also be the wiring of the source power or return signal is not properly in the wago connection at the processor. Ensure that the wago is clamped the wire and not on the insulation. (this happens if the wire isn't trimmed back enough before being put in the wago. ... Hopefully something said will put you on the right path.

 

[Mangler]

I will start with the easy one. I have dashes for SOG not zero. Same for my TZT- and the data source is IF-NMEA2K2(tzt). What do I have setup incorrectly. I will try and work through the other suggestions tonight - and thanks for taking the time to write up such a detailed response.

 

[Mangler]

I verified both LED's were functioning as you mentioned, that was a relief.

Not sure why my GP330B isn't working. I am not getting GPS location. Unfortunately that was one of the components I didn't install, so all I know that is was working prior to this install. I went from 6 to 8 on my NMEA backbone, I didn't think that would cause isuses with my GPS. Sound like the GP330B not functioning is the issue. I disconnected the autopilot nmea went back to original setup and still no GP330B showing up in my sensor list for the TZT, and no position. (it did previously) Not sure how to test the GP330B.

 

[Johnny Electron]

Great job troubleshooting. I agree the FPS8 seems to be working perfectly but the pilot is missing the required speed component (SOG).

If your TZT is not picking up GPS then I agree it sounds like something went wrong when the 2000 bus was reconfigured. Once you get working GPS, ensure you pick the Position SOURCE in both your TZT and in the pilot setup configurations. The TZT will auto switch and get the GPS if you forget but the pilot will not. The SOG and position source must be setup in the configuration of the pilot.

 

[Mangler]

I see the Sensors Selection Menu (under NMEA2000). My problem is the GP330B setup. How do I reset or reconfigure it so it shows up? I looked at the manual for the GP330B and I don't see setup for the TZT. I didn't set it up, so I am in the dark. I feel like this should be simple, but I just can't figure it out.

I took a picture of the sensor list last night if that helps. The GP330B doesn't show up.

Thanks for the help.

 

[Johnny Electron]

You can't select it as a source (Under Data Source) if the device isn't showing up to the system. The items seen by the TZT show up in the SENSOR LIST. Yours reflects there is no working GP330B attached to the network. This might be because someone used a split power tee on building the bus but only connected two power wires. Half of the bus is powered and half isn't unless you connect the second set of power wires. This is just an example. Some reason your GP330B isn't getting connection or power on the bus and it isn't seen by your TZT or the Navpilot. You need to troubleshoot that because you need GPS for lots of features.

 

[Mangler]

After reading through the forum, I found a potential problem. I had a thick canvas cover over the boat. Yes, that was enough to make the GP330B not work. Chalk that up to learning. Now that I have the sensor working I get COG of 0.0. I completed the sensor selection and repeated the install. I got the safe helm test and failed again.

Next I went after each connection(very carefully taking one wire out at a time), took pictures to get a good view, and I believe the connections were made correctly. After, I reverified the LEDs were still functioning. Any thoughts on what I should try next? I am guessing I need to do a continuity test, I just don’t want to peel off the heat shrink- that will lead me to re- splicing. Really thought I had it with the cover screw up. All suggestions welcome!!

 

[Mangler]

I for got to mention the last group of tests were done one the trailer, not at the dock. I couldn't think of any issues this might cause, but thought I would put it out there. I went through all of the menus and diagnostics and everything seems fine. Not sure what to try next.

 

[Johnny Electron]

It is always best to setup dockside in the water. It could be that out of the water it is moving too fast, or that in most cases; your engines must be running for your hydraulic system when you run the dockside.

 

[Mangler]

Anything else I can test before I try dockside? Everything seems to run fine on the trailer, and the voltage under diagnostics looks fine at 12.6V. I would guess it is slow more than fast, but I am not an expert on this at all. I just find it weird everything is functioning (including LED's), but it isn't picking up the signal at the processor.

 

[Johnny Electron]

About the only thing I can think of is ensuring the input wires from the FPS8 are seated well into the Navpilot wago and on the wires not the insulation. If they are, I expect you must be in the water with the engines running to complete the dockside. I have seen many people fail dockside because the engines are not running.