Very wide angle transducer

[rmenendez]

Getting ready to replace the last of my non-Furuno gear and need some advice. I have today 2 TZT14 with a DFF3 and an R309 transducer. It is great with deep drop and bottom fishing which for me is between 200 and 400 meters. I also have a Raymarine CP450 chirp with a B265LH which I am ready to replace with a DFF1-UHD but I am concerned that for my blue fin tuna fishing, drifting or anchored, the narrow cone angle is just not the best. I went out a couple of weeks ago in a friends boat with an FCV-627 and B60 and we were marking tuna beautifully which is something I have never been able to do with either the chirp or the DFF3. As we are only concerned about the top 30-60m, 600 watts is no problem but the 45º angle is just perfect to see them coming and fine tune our baits. I have just seen magazine ads from Airmar announcing chirp transducers with 40º cone, called ultra wide, but cannot see anything in their website. Are you aware of any new thru hull with this cone angle? Will they work with the DFF1-UHD?

My other option is either a DFF1 or a TZT2 (can always use another screen) with a B60/B744. What would you suggest.

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[Snips]

rmenendez,
I have been following the progress of them. The narrowness of the first generation CHIRP transducers is something we noted from the start. We lobbied hard for wider beam widths and we are starting to see that with wider beam widths on the high frequency side. It will interesting to see if the CHIRP low frequency beam width can be increased without changing the shape of the transducer. Did you know that CA28F-8 has a BW of 31 x 34 at the 3db and 41 x 46 at the 6db point? Works very nicely on Tuna.

Snips

 

[rmenendez]

Thanks Snips. Interesting option you suggest with the CA28F-8 except don't know if tank mount is right for me. As I understand it this requires making a chest for the transducer outside the hull - is this correct? My boat is a 96 Bertram 46 and I cruise between 21 and 26 knots. I also notice no connector. Do I use a special connector box to a DFF1 or switching box to my DFF-3? As I mentioned, the R309 is working exceptionally well and for finding the right spot where to set anchor is great so I don't want to replace it. The Airmar ad says the new PM411LMW covers 40º (copy attached) and the B744VL is 45º but nothing mentioned about 3/6 db so not certain where it has been measured. I also notice that there is an in-hull 520-IHD that also has a 45º cone angle so not quite sure if ot would be an option.

Thanks again for your help.

 

[Snips]

Remenendez,
I saw that ad a couple of months ago. I called to ask if the transducers that were pictured were going to be the shape and design of the "new" series, at that time I was told no. The limited information that I have is that the '"new" wide design will have a wider housing. As for the CA28F-8, it was designed for tank mounting but has been mounted in fairing blocks like the one pictured below. It can't but used with a DFF1 because it is only 50/200Khz, but it can be used with the DFF3.

Snips

 

[rmenendez]

Hi Snips,

Thanks for your reply. It would be very inconvenient for me to add this transducer replacing the low frequency portion of the R309 when I fish for BFT. It is also from the looks of the installation photo, a rather big glass work making the option less interesting. I gather the 600w option is not really right for me. I will be in Ft Lauderdale next month and explore with both Airmar and your team to see what options may be feasible, if any.

Rolando

 

[Anonymous]

I run an airmar SS 270 with my navnet displays. It's the wide version of the 260. Awesome for marking tuna, salmon, and bottom fish in my washington waters. I see albacore down to 300 feet clear as day!

 

[Snips]

Tailwalker,
The 270's were a very nice transducer unfortunately the HF crystal that was be using is no longer being produced. We still have a few 270's depending on the configuration.

Snips

 

[rmenendez]

View attachment TrnsducerComparison.pdfSnips/Tailwalker,

I've tried to picture my need in a drawing that maybe can explain my problem. My current setup consists of a DFF3 connected to an R309 and a Raymarine C450CP with a B265. Both transducers are located aprox. 16' from the transom. When fishing for BFT anchored, like they do in Wicked Tuna, I use three lines that are spaced both vertically and horizontally. The cone angles of my transducers, at their low frequencies are just too narrow. The R309 is 17º Port/Stbd and 11º Bow/Stern. I assume the B265 to be a 25º circle. This coverage puts me too far away from the baits and action, I don't see anything.

Now I am considering adding a 3rd sounder just for this type of fishing as my need is to achieve as wide a coverage as possible. I have read about other brands that have products which appear to cover my needs but I want to be all Furuno. That is why I am considering the B60, it has a 45º angle which is by far the widest that I have found. I am aware that chirp is great, sort of, but I already have a 25º coverage with the B265 and its not enough. Also, a 150+lb BFT at these depth will be seen by just about anything. I have even considered the merits and difficulties of having the transducers angled towards my stern to have a look towards the back of the boat.

Attached is a drawing of my current situation. This assumes the B60 is in the same area as the other transducers. I have also considered placing them closer to the stern as they would only get used when anchored.

Hope this helps and many thanks for input on possible solutions. As I said before, I will be in Ft Lauderdale to see what Furuno reps suggest and view new product.

Rolando

 

[Snips]

Rmenendez,
Go ahead and give it a try. I will be interested to see if it give you the results you are looking for. Below is a test I did years ago comparing 600 to 1kw transducers using only 600w of power into both. I didn't make any other adjustments except changing transducers.

Snips

 

[rmenendez]

Snips,

Just returned from Ft Lauderdale and got a good suggestion from your troops. What about using the DFF1-UHD I am adding which has the RM B265LH I mentioned earlier in another thread, and use a pole switch to the HF portion and change between the B265 and a new B175HW at the transom? Its a 25º angle but with higher detail. Is the transducer listed or just keep as if B265LH in the configuration?

Thanks,

Rolando

 

[Snips]

rmenendez,
For most fishing needs the wider beam on the HF side has been very beneficial. However just know that the B-175HW wasn't designed to be transom mounted. Even though the top of the transducers is potted where the cable enters it might suffer from water intrusion after a while.

Snips

 

[rmenendez]

Hi Snips,

Was just looking at the chart listing TAP settings for the DFF3 and I noticed that the B175HW can be connected using Tap A on the high side, the same as the R309 on the high side so its an easy addition, I think. Also thought about what you said about water intrusion so I am considering a permanent thru hull installation on the transom, below the waterline, firing back with a 20º down angle or even greater with an added fairing, or underside facing 20º back. Aware cannot use while running because of prop turbulence but this is no problem as its only use is while anchored or drifting. This last option of being permanently under water makes sure the transducer does not overheat because we forget to turn it off while fighting a fish and move the boat. Have you tested the B175HW with a DFF3 or FCV295/1150? Does it work OK. Thinking is that I can easily fine tune frequency for best results compared to the DFF1-UHD.

Thanks for your help.

Rolando

 

[Quitsa]

Snips,

Just returned from Ft Lauderdale and got a good suggestion from your troops. What about using the DFF1-UHD I am adding which has the RM B265LH I mentioned earlier in another thread, and use a pole switch to the HF portion and change between the B265 and a new B175HW at the transom? Its a 25º angle but with higher detail. Is the transducer listed or just keep as if B265LH in the configuration?

Thanks,

Rolando

Snips --

Is it okay to wire two transducers this way with a simple double pole/double throw switch? I thought that would damage them.

 

[Snips]

Remenendez,
I have not tested the 175HW but from what I understand it has the same element as the 275HW. From testing the HF side I found it to resonate a little better at the lower end of its frequency range. Below is a sweep test where I was comparing the HF of the 275 against the 265.

Snips

 

[Snips]

Quitsa,
It is OK to use a DP/DT switch. While you could also switch the shield wire it is OK to tie all the shields together. Be sure to use a on/on switch instead of a on/off/on.

Snips

 

[Quitsa]

Quitsa,
It is OK to use a DP/DT switch. While you could also switch the shield wire it is OK to tie all the shields together. Be sure to use a on/on switch instead of a on/off/on.

Snips

Snips -- Thank you. I have a DFF1-UHD and PM265LH and was thinking of adding a B175HW if I could set the system up to switch the HF easily. Are the settings basically identical for the H and wider HW element or will I have to change the DFF1-UHD settings when I switch transducers? Would it also be necessary to stop transmission before switching?

Otherwise it sounds pretty simple if all it takes is an $8 DPDT on/on switch and some cable (I can use a length of transducer cable since I have an extra six feet coiled up now).

The idea appeals to me of using the HW for trolling and the narrow beam for bottom fishing. So far I am very pleased with the performance of the system with the PM265LH.

 

[Snips]

Quitsa,
As long as you have an on/on switch there is no need to stop the transmission when switching from one transducer to the other. As far as settings go, the basic settings will be the same i.e. screen advance 1/1, TX Rate 20. Because the 175HW has a wider beam you probably will find you will need a little more gain than while using the HF side of the 265. Having a set up like this is the best of both worlds and should work well for you.

Snips

 

[Quitsa]

Okay. I was thinking of the transducer setup menu where you choose "B265LH" etc. My boat is now stored for winter so I can't check. I seem to recall that the 275LHW is one of the transducer options now and I thought there might be some other basic sounder settings that get changed depending upon which model is selected in that setup. Thanks.

 

[Snips]

Quitsa,
No need to change the transducer type. The only difference was that the ACCU-FISH and BD modes would have been disabled if you were using the latest UHD software. Just know that if you use those two modes the information will not be accurate using the 175HW.

Snips

 

[rmenendez]

Hello again Snips,

I placed the order yesterday for the DFF1-UHD and the B175W. Have the option of connecting to either DFF1-UHD or DFF3 but the sounder modules are physically very far apart so inconvenient to try and see which one works best with the B175W. BTW, took some time but I found the Airmar technical data for all their transducers and noticed that the 150-250kHz element has a 30º beamwidth at -3 and 38º at the -6 dB point. It is actually the narrowest at the lower 160kHz with 24º. Don't know if this may influence what you tested.

With this in mind and your testing experience, which one do you suggest I connect the B175W to?

Thanks again for all your help.

Rolando