I have a Furuno 1870F Chart-plotter and fish finder and need a little guidance for my next move. Want to add the Nav Pilot 300 to the boat 2006 Grady white 208. Can I plum into the Intellisteer octopus pump and receiver rather than buying another pump? Can I interface my older Furuno with the AP with NMEA 2000 to receive navigating to way points. Will I need the heading sensor to use the remote and navigate by compass heading? Can the auto modes be used without a heading sensor? Looking forward to purchasing the AP if I can make it work with my present pump. With thanks, trapper
Nav Pilot 300
- Thread starter trapper
- Start date
If it current works, I don't see why not. You would have to disconnect the Intellisteer box and only use the pump. You can't connect the intellisteer and the pilot both to that single pump. Before disconnecting the intellisteer, I would run it hard over to hard over to ensure it works well and provide a hard over to hard over time between 7-12 seconds. Ideally you want around a 9 to 10 second hard overtime.
Yes if you connect your GP1870F to the same NMEA 2000 bus with your Navpilot, it will drive a course.
The heart of an auto pilot is heading and hydraulics. You MUST have a source of heading data. The better the data the better the pilot will work. If you don't have a source of heading, you must get one or the pilot won't work.
No modes on the autopilot will work if you don't have heading.
One more question, the Intellisteer receiver shows connections (wires) for: autopilot motor input, autopilot clutch input, motor output, and clutch output. Would I have to disconnect the receiver or could I use the Intellisteer pump as long as I did not use them at the same time? New to autopilots, just trying to use my newly acquired Intellisteer, which I appear to have purchased prematurely if I wanted to use an autopilot. The online brochure mentioned it was compatible with autopilots, no doubt I missed something in the fine print. Much thanks again, trapper
I only looked at it briefly and didn't see anything about a clutch. The Navpilot 300 doesn't have a clutch output. I suspect that it might be designed to support both IF you had a clutch output from the pilot like the NP700 offers. You would really have to discuss that with the makers of the Intellisteer. My thoughts are no. If you try running both without a swtich/clutch you are going to short out the pilot and the Intellisteer.
Hello one more time. This is the responce I got from Intellisteer, to look at the installation instructions which I have copied and is shown below. 2.7 Connecting to an Autopilot System
Typically there are 4 wires between the autopilot course computer and drive unit: two heavy wires to drive the motor, and two lighter wires to actuate the clutch (for a mechanical drive) or __bypass solenoid (for a hydraulic drive) if required. Some drives do not have a clutch – refer to your drive in- structions for confirmation.
Disconnect the drive output and clutch wires from the course computer and connect these to the corresponding drive unit input and drive unit clutch wires on the Receiver as per Table 2, using the supplied crimp connectors. Connect the Course Computer Drive Output and Course Computer Clutch wires from the Receiver to the corresponding connectors on the course computer - refer to your autopilot manual for the wire colour coding between the autopilot course computer and drive unit.
So with no clutch I would have to go to a different system or could this be rigged for a Nav 300. Although I could dismantle Intellisteer and only use the pump for the Nav 300? Apologies for my feeble attempt to understand this process, but would really like a NAV P 300 Once again I thank you, Brian,
Typically there are 4 wires between the autopilot course computer and drive unit: two heavy wires to drive the motor, and two lighter wires to actuate the clutch (for a mechanical drive) or __bypass solenoid (for a hydraulic drive) if required. Some drives do not have a clutch – refer to your drive in- structions for confirmation.
Disconnect the drive output and clutch wires from the course computer and connect these to the corresponding drive unit input and drive unit clutch wires on the Receiver as per Table 2, using the supplied crimp connectors. Connect the Course Computer Drive Output and Course Computer Clutch wires from the Receiver to the corresponding connectors on the course computer - refer to your autopilot manual for the wire colour coding between the autopilot course computer and drive unit.
So with no clutch I would have to go to a different system or could this be rigged for a Nav 300. Although I could dismantle Intellisteer and only use the pump for the Nav 300? Apologies for my feeble attempt to understand this process, but would really like a NAV P 300 Once again I thank you, Brian,
Sorry I don't know enough about their pumps/system but if it requires and uses a clutch, then you can't use the Navpilot 300. The Navpilot 700 has a clutch output but not all clutch outputs are created equal so not 100% that would work either. Maybe someone on the forum is more familiar with Intellisteer.
Maybe I can help you find out what your options are. What isn't clear to me from your description, is what kind of steering system you have.
Reading your post, it seems that you have added an Intellisteer drive unit and a remote controller (handheld unit and a receiver) to your existing steering system. Depending on the steering system, Intellisteer seems to sell different drive units and all of them seem to be labelled something 'octopus'.
I have looked up your 2006 Grady white 208 and it seems to normally come with a cable steering system, on the other hand you talk about an 'octopus pump' which suggests that you have a hydraulic steering.
The drive unit for the cable steering requires a clutch and the Nav Pilot 300 would not be suitable for it.
If, on the other hand you do indeed have a hydraulic steering system, you be be fine with the Nav Pilot 300.
The hydraulic drive that comes from Intellisteer is just a standard reverseable pump which sits parallel to wheelpump and drive cylinder. It doesn't need a clutch or bypass valve. And I would guess, that in this case the clutch output of your receiver unit isn't even connected, but do check the cabling on your receiver and if you find clutch wires check where they are going.
There are hydraulic steering systems that have two drive cylinders for redundancy, one used by the autopilot and the other by the regular steering. I that case bypass valves that are activated via the clutch output of the autopilot are necessary. I don't think your boat would have such a system though.
Looking at their (IntelliSteer) manuals, which are not very detailed, it seems the receiver unit would simply pass through drive and clutch wires from its input to its output when the remote is switched off. With the remote on, it would cut the input lines off, power the clutch output with 12V and take control of the drive wires. If the drive has no clutch, then no clutch wires are needed.
So I think that if you have hydraulic steering, all you need to do is to connect the autopilot drive wires to the receiver appropriate receiver input and it should work.
Reading your post, it seems that you have added an Intellisteer drive unit and a remote controller (handheld unit and a receiver) to your existing steering system. Depending on the steering system, Intellisteer seems to sell different drive units and all of them seem to be labelled something 'octopus'.
I have looked up your 2006 Grady white 208 and it seems to normally come with a cable steering system, on the other hand you talk about an 'octopus pump' which suggests that you have a hydraulic steering.
The drive unit for the cable steering requires a clutch and the Nav Pilot 300 would not be suitable for it.
If, on the other hand you do indeed have a hydraulic steering system, you be be fine with the Nav Pilot 300.
The hydraulic drive that comes from Intellisteer is just a standard reverseable pump which sits parallel to wheelpump and drive cylinder. It doesn't need a clutch or bypass valve. And I would guess, that in this case the clutch output of your receiver unit isn't even connected, but do check the cabling on your receiver and if you find clutch wires check where they are going.
There are hydraulic steering systems that have two drive cylinders for redundancy, one used by the autopilot and the other by the regular steering. I that case bypass valves that are activated via the clutch output of the autopilot are necessary. I don't think your boat would have such a system though.
Looking at their (IntelliSteer) manuals, which are not very detailed, it seems the receiver unit would simply pass through drive and clutch wires from its input to its output when the remote is switched off. With the remote on, it would cut the input lines off, power the clutch output with 12V and take control of the drive wires. If the drive has no clutch, then no clutch wires are needed.
So I think that if you have hydraulic steering, all you need to do is to connect the autopilot drive wires to the receiver appropriate receiver input and it should work.
Taniwani, Thank you for taking the time with the best explanation to my situation. Yes I have Seastar hydraulic steering, last year I connected the Intellisteer with its OCTAFG 10-12 pump and remote pendent. I have only a single drive cylinder. Works great! Just really wanted to add a Navpilot 300. AS advertised in their literature it is suppose to be compatible with an Autopilot. The questions I have put to the forum have been all about making sure this will work before dismantling the Intellisteer to purchase a NP 300. If you go back in my post, you will see different responses to my questions Clutch, no clutch etc. Evidently the AP 300 does not have a clutch. I printed the instructions from Intellisteer in one of my posts on connecting the receiver to the AP but not sure if that is still doable without frying (shorting) out both as mentioned by one of the responses. The ONLY WIRES connected to the pump and receiver are the power (red) and ground (black). The rest are curled up and taped off. Sooo are you saying that I CAN connect the Nav 300 through the Intellisteer receiver and all will work? If I appear confused, it is my first attempt at trying to making this all work and only pursuing it because of the Intellisteer instructions of compatibly between the two units. Again a big thanks for your expertise!! Cheers trapper
Hello Trapper
yes I think you can connect the Nav Pilot 300 to your Intellisteer receiver. But before jumping the gun, lets verify a few things:
You say the ONLY cables connected to pump and receiver are the power (red) and ground (black). I think you should also have a connection between pump and receiver:
Blue -> drive unit (+) and Green -> drive unit (-). The rest of the wires (6) coiled up.
If this is the case, you are fine.
Then you can install the Nav-Pilot 300 and connect its cable labeled MOTOR (red and black inside) to 'Course Computer Drive Output+/- (yellow and yellow/green) of your receiver. Polarity doesn't really matter as the autopilot will figure it out during the commissioning procedure.
For all else around the Nav Pilot 300, like heading sensor etc. Jonny Electron has already given you all the answers, so just follow the installation manual. If you are confused by anything just ask again.
The behaviour you should expect from the installation would be, that by turning on the IntelliSteer remote, it will get priority over the autopilot and simply disconnect the AP from the drive pump. If the autopilot is still engaged at this point it will eventually give you an alarm when it cannot bring the boat back on the course it is steering. So it is best to take the AP on standby before, or shortly after taking over control with the remote.
yes I think you can connect the Nav Pilot 300 to your Intellisteer receiver. But before jumping the gun, lets verify a few things:
You say the ONLY cables connected to pump and receiver are the power (red) and ground (black). I think you should also have a connection between pump and receiver:
Blue -> drive unit (+) and Green -> drive unit (-). The rest of the wires (6) coiled up.
If this is the case, you are fine.
Then you can install the Nav-Pilot 300 and connect its cable labeled MOTOR (red and black inside) to 'Course Computer Drive Output+/- (yellow and yellow/green) of your receiver. Polarity doesn't really matter as the autopilot will figure it out during the commissioning procedure.
For all else around the Nav Pilot 300, like heading sensor etc. Jonny Electron has already given you all the answers, so just follow the installation manual. If you are confused by anything just ask again.
The behaviour you should expect from the installation would be, that by turning on the IntelliSteer remote, it will get priority over the autopilot and simply disconnect the AP from the drive pump. If the autopilot is still engaged at this point it will eventually give you an alarm when it cannot bring the boat back on the course it is steering. So it is best to take the AP on standby before, or shortly after taking over control with the remote.
Trapper, one more note:
the IntelliSteer manual is a bit ambiguous regarding the use of the clutch signal.
At 2.7 Connecting to an Autopilot System they write:
Typically there are 4 wires between the autopilot course computer and drive unit: two heavy wires to drive the motor, and two lighter wires to actuate the clutch (for a mechanical drive) or bypass solenoid (for a hydraulic drive) if required. Some drives do not have a clutch – refer to your drive in- structions for confirmation.
And at 3.1 Power On/Off they write:
If interfaced with an Autopilot, the Autopilot must be turned off or put into standby mode before activating the Intellisteer Wireless Controller to prevent interactions between the two controllers. If both Intellisteer and the Autopilot are steering at the same time, unpredictable results can occur.
With respect to 2.7 they confirm that not all drive units have a clutch, but they do not explicitly say that some autopilots may not have a clutch output. So in theory, even with pump drives that do not have a clutch, they could be expecting a clutch signal from the AP in order to check if the AP is engaged and only pass through the drive wires if a clutch voltage is present. I don't think that's likely but possible an in this case you would have to install a switch that puts 12V on the clutch input of the receiver when using the AP and turns off the you want to use the IntelliSteer remote.
The note under 3.1 is very unspecific as only one of the two will control the drive unit at a time. Like I said in my previous post, I think that turning on the remote will take priority over the AP and the AP may continue trying to steer with no effect. Alternatively, if they use the clutch input from the AP to determine if the AP is engaged, then the AP would be given priority. But one or the other must be true. We should see how it reacts, and if the later is the case you may need to install that additional switch to select between AP or remote.
Cheers Taniwani
the IntelliSteer manual is a bit ambiguous regarding the use of the clutch signal.
At 2.7 Connecting to an Autopilot System they write:
Typically there are 4 wires between the autopilot course computer and drive unit: two heavy wires to drive the motor, and two lighter wires to actuate the clutch (for a mechanical drive) or bypass solenoid (for a hydraulic drive) if required. Some drives do not have a clutch – refer to your drive in- structions for confirmation.
And at 3.1 Power On/Off they write:
If interfaced with an Autopilot, the Autopilot must be turned off or put into standby mode before activating the Intellisteer Wireless Controller to prevent interactions between the two controllers. If both Intellisteer and the Autopilot are steering at the same time, unpredictable results can occur.
With respect to 2.7 they confirm that not all drive units have a clutch, but they do not explicitly say that some autopilots may not have a clutch output. So in theory, even with pump drives that do not have a clutch, they could be expecting a clutch signal from the AP in order to check if the AP is engaged and only pass through the drive wires if a clutch voltage is present. I don't think that's likely but possible an in this case you would have to install a switch that puts 12V on the clutch input of the receiver when using the AP and turns off the you want to use the IntelliSteer remote.
The note under 3.1 is very unspecific as only one of the two will control the drive unit at a time. Like I said in my previous post, I think that turning on the remote will take priority over the AP and the AP may continue trying to steer with no effect. Alternatively, if they use the clutch input from the AP to determine if the AP is engaged, then the AP would be given priority. But one or the other must be true. We should see how it reacts, and if the later is the case you may need to install that additional switch to select between AP or remote.
Cheers Taniwani
Taniwani, You must be a AP guru. No one else has taken the time to explain the process so well. I guess my concern, since I will be installing myself, that I do not blow up both units. I am actively searching to purchase the Navpilot. Tough to find in B.C. Canada, with the dollar value difference it is $2400 CD plus duty. (made in Japan) So really want to get it right the first time. A big thanks, and I am sure I will have more questions if I can line up the Napilot 300 PG. Cheer, trapper
There always appears to br ONE MORE question. When I do purchase my Navpilot 300 can I ge the NMEA backbone to covert from Furuno Autopilot to my Gen 1 Lowrannce HDS GPS? I am familiar with Lawrence NMEA but do not know if they are the same as Furuno or will I need a transition device? With thanks once again, trapper
Hi Trapper,
from the post I thought you had a Furuno 1870F Chart-plotter, now it sounds like you (also?) have an older Lowrance HDS in your installation. Mixing generations and vendors of equipment is tricky, though it can work, possibly with somewhat reduced functionality.
So far we have been sorting out the drive/clutch side of the of the autopilot, and Jonny E. had been helping you on the other side, the integration with instruments, displays and sensors.
I'm happy to help you, but we should first establish what exact equipment you have and what you want to achieve. As Jonny told you, you need at the minimum a heading sensor to make any autopilot work.
A short answer to your Lowrance HDS question, is that it should work together with your new autopilot on the N2k backbone. The functionality that you can get, would be the autopilot following a route that you activated on the Lowrance. The same is true for the 1870F. Of course only one at a time. There is a lot more detail to all this. Let's first find out what you want to achieve.
Cheers
Harald
from the post I thought you had a Furuno 1870F Chart-plotter, now it sounds like you (also?) have an older Lowrance HDS in your installation. Mixing generations and vendors of equipment is tricky, though it can work, possibly with somewhat reduced functionality.
So far we have been sorting out the drive/clutch side of the of the autopilot, and Jonny E. had been helping you on the other side, the integration with instruments, displays and sensors.
I'm happy to help you, but we should first establish what exact equipment you have and what you want to achieve. As Jonny told you, you need at the minimum a heading sensor to make any autopilot work.
A short answer to your Lowrance HDS question, is that it should work together with your new autopilot on the N2k backbone. The functionality that you can get, would be the autopilot following a route that you activated on the Lowrance. The same is true for the 1870F. Of course only one at a time. There is a lot more detail to all this. Let's first find out what you want to achieve.
Cheers
Harald
Thanks Harald, Apologies for the confusion. Yes I understand the need for a heading sensor the Nav 300 and Intellisteer has been explained very well to me. It is I who appears autopilot handicapped! Again just checking all the possibilities before I lay down the loot. I much prefer Navionics on my Lowrance Gen HDS 7 for navigation, but also have the C map (Jeppson) on my Furuno1870F. It is just a personal preference and was questioning if I could Integrate Nav 300 through NMEA 2000 with the Lawrence GPS. I primarily use the Furuno for the fish finder and occasional navigation.I would choose which ever worked best together with the AP. It just appeared to me that the NMEA 2000 connections were different for each gps. Thanks again for your patience! Cheers, trapper
Hi trapper, understood. NMEA2000 was conceived to standardise the information flow between navigation devices so that devices form different vendors can interoperate. So there is no translation device necessary. However, the functionality covered by the N2k specification doesn't cover everything and vendors have added features that only work between their own devices. So if you connect your Lowrance plotter and the new Nav 300 to the backbone, the functionality you will get, is for the autopilot to follow a route that you created and activated on your plotter. But you will not be able to activate the AP from the plotter, you will have to do that from the dedicated control head. Full control over the AP is possible only with newer plotters that are from the same vendor as the AP, as this interaction isn't specified in the standard and everybody is using its own messages to do that. That would be things like setting it on standby, auto or track etc. Both your plotters don't have that feature anyway.
But as both can send out data to follow a route or steer for a waypoint, you will need to select one or the other when you setup the autopilot. (And you can change that any time).
Aside of this, the autopilot also likes to see SOG,COG (GPS data) and STW (water log) if possible and has to find heading information on the NMEA2000 bus.
If there are several sources sending out the same information type, it can get a bit more complicated. But I think in your case the autopilot will see your two distinct plotters and give you a choice.
In short, I hink you can go ahead with your project and if you run in to some of these NMEA2000 issues we will sort it out.
Cheers
But as both can send out data to follow a route or steer for a waypoint, you will need to select one or the other when you setup the autopilot. (And you can change that any time).
Aside of this, the autopilot also likes to see SOG,COG (GPS data) and STW (water log) if possible and has to find heading information on the NMEA2000 bus.
If there are several sources sending out the same information type, it can get a bit more complicated. But I think in your case the autopilot will see your two distinct plotters and give you a choice.
In short, I hink you can go ahead with your project and if you run in to some of these NMEA2000 issues we will sort it out.
Cheers
Thanks again for your so informative reply. I think one would be tempted to buy Foruno just for the available expertise given freely on this Furno Forum. OK I will try and settle down with the questions and get on with a possible purchase of the NavPilot 300 PG. With a big appreciation! Cheers trapper
Hello Taniwani, I know there is ALWAYS one more question. Have ordered my Nav Pilot 300 PG 700. Looking over the online instructions of placement of the pg 700 on the boat, not really clear on location, apart from what to stay away from. Is location as to centre (lined up with bow), off centre but still facing bow, height from deck, midship, important? What area would be the best location on a 208 Grady White cuddy cabin w/a. Looking forward, Cheers, trapper p.s. I don't have to many areas to consider.
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