Intermittent Issue with AIS Targets Not Displaying on XL10 & XL16

[pinkeerach]

Setup: Monohull sailboat with an XL10 set as master at the nav station and an XL16 in the cockpit, both running 25.11.1. The AIS tx/rx device is a Simrad NAIS-500.

Problem: Seeing intermittent problem where AIS targets are not displaying at all unless I jump through hoops (changing instance IDs, waiting to power things up/powering things up in a particular order, pat my head/rub my stomach, etc.).

Troubleshooting steps/info:
- I have confirmed the AIS data is on the NMEA2k network, and am seeing the data in TZ iBoat (via the AIS module) as well as in other apps where I'm consuming the N2k feed (Aquamaps, etc.)
- I have also confirmed the AIS data on the n2k network with an n2k logger/inspector
- Most of the time, if we turn on the AIS and give it about 3-5min before turning on the MFDs, the data will show up
- Sometimes, if I change the Sys Instance and Device Instance of the NAIS-500 and reboot, the AIS data will appear. This does not always solve the problem.
- Confirmed that I have the "AIS Targets" option turned on in the UI
- Most reliable way to fix it...
1. change the NAIS-500 system instance and device instance
2. power off MFD XL10
3. turn off MFD breaker and AIS breaker (shared with VHF) -- a "soft" reboot (where I don't flip the breaker) sometimes is sufficient but not alway
4. let sit for a minute or 2
5. turn on AIS/VHF breaker and wait 3min or so
6. turn on MFD XL10 and pray to the electronics gods

Photos attached are a before changing the Instance IDs on the NAIS-500. Will post the "after" photos in the next post. The TZ iBoat app gets data as soon as the AIS breaker comes on, so I can't help but wonder what's up with the MFDs.

This is super annoying because of the intermit nature (sometimes we're troubleshooting underway), and the fact that I know the data is on the network! Never had this issue with our old TZT MFDs.

What could be going on? What else should I look for or try to resolve this issue?

 

[pinkeerach]

And the after photos from the instance ID changes + hard reboot (breaker flip, not just power down with the device button).

 

[Lim Jahey]

I would isolate the network to just the MFD and AIS unit and see if that works. If it does, you have a problem somewhere in the network.

 

[Sparky Wire]

Simrad has some proprietary stuff which they call SimNet NT. The first thing I notice is the installer left you with some instance conflicts that still exist on your bus.



Each device that puts out the same type of PGN should be on different "Device Instances".

If mine, I would start by ensuring you have the newest software on everything, particularly the Simrad and then sort the 2000 bus out. Lim is correct that when you have a large bus it helps to cut it down to the very basics and see what happens. There is no simple magic wand for you here as the there is a lot to be sorted. It seems the sensor list is much longer than the one photo so there could be more conflicts as well.

 

[pinkeerach]

Interesting points. The network has grown in complexity in the last year as we added the Cerbo GX and the PredictWind data hub to the n2k network. We did not have this issue until this summer, which coincided with the MFD upgrades (tzts to tztXLs, cerbogx upgrade).

The Simrad devices/configurations haven't changed (we've had the same 4 FI-50s longer than we've owned the boat), and have not previously had any issues or conflicts so I would be surprised if those devices were the source of the conflicts. The Cerbo joining the n2k network introduced by far the most devices onto the network. And yes...our sensor list is quite long now (it was maybe 2 "pages") when we bought the boat from the previous owner.

With all this in mind, I'm going to start taking the most suspect devices off the network and see what happens. If that doesn't result in anything definitive, I'll take the other approach and create an isolated n2k network with only MFD and AIS (more involved because of accessibility).

One thing that's still nebulous to me that maybe y'all can help me understand: if the FI-507 devices are indeed conflicting, wouldn't that cause data issues for other devices (not AIS)? Further, the FI-507s are display only, and don't broadcast data (I don't think). More to the point: how would FI-50 displays conflicting cause AIS issues? (open to any n2k educational links that might be helpful)

 

[Sparky Wire]

They have the potential to be in conflict because they both support and can put out the same PGNs. Proper configuration is to ensure that it isn't possible to create conflicts even if not currently. Data clashes or conflicts can cause all types of problems and not just with AIS as the units try to sort out conflicts on the bus. NMEA 2000 isn't always easy and the larger the bus the more chance of "things". Sometimes it pays to move items not needed on the primary 2000 bus to a separate bus on its own. Fusion audio is one of those that because their remotes are not NMEA certified and don't play well with others that is better on its own bus, just as an example. These headaches is why NMEA installers charge as they attend the courses that NMEA charges for along with all their documentation that isn't free to the public. NMEA 2000 is simple enough to becomes a real pain particularly when mixing companies and many who wish not to certify or use their own proprietary modes. I am sure given time you will find out what is happening but it isn't always easy.