TZ3, PBG mapping & transducer selection

[LordoftheTides]

New to the forum here and have some questions about a future refit on my new 35' nonstep center console. I'm sorry if any of this info / questions are repetitive but am having difficulty grasping what direction I should go...

I'm looking at a single TZ3 paired to the DFF3-UHD / DFF3D or possibly DI-FFAMP.
What is the difference in the DFF3-UHD & DI-FFAMP?

I am wanting to have side scan ability along with map generation through the PBG. Can I get away with a single transducer in the R509LHW or do I need a specific side scan transducer like the 225T-SS904? Does this side scan transducer allow PBG or is that only with a 120* W transducer?
How deep can I expect the side scan 220-240khz to accurately scan outwards to ~100ft?

Before I get any further and confuse myself more, I figure I explain the style of fishing I do in regards to purchasing the R509LHW vs regular R509. I have a 40' commercial boat that I bottom fish for grouper in depths of 100-600' ft. I have a dinosaur FCV-1100 paired to a shoot-thru 2kwHL (can't remember the model)
I have never used CHIRP & it isn't highly regarded here locally (FL GULF) amongst bottom fisherman due to the lack of bottom density readings opposed to traditional beam. Is this still the consensus or has CHIRP come a long way? The reason I am interested in CHIRP is the ability to read individual fish in > 600ft. I plan on doing more daytime swordfishing in the center console out to 2,500ft along with the typical bottom fishing I have always done. I have uploaded a ton of sounder pics from readings on the FCV-1100 2kw in my big boat. You'll see the density of bottom very well opposed to the bad fish targets in the shallow pictures vice versa with the deeper depths.

I appreciate any help/advice!

 

[LordoftheTides]

Like anything, you learn to read what's under the boat based off of experience. Obviously if spending a lot of money, I want the best of both worlds!

 

[LordoftheTides]

220-200ft gag grouper

 

[Sparky Wire]

CHIRP offers it's best avantages in 600 or less ft of water. @Deep Blue can maybe explain that better than I but there are many posts on this forum showing and explaining options. If you want PGB data to update the charts on the TZT3 MFD, you must have a DFF3D and compatible transducer. While the DFF3D offers side scan it is not nearly as impressive in that mode as a dedicated side-scan transducer running. A regular transducer will not run side-scan. A dedicated side-scan transducer is needed. When using the DFF3-UHD or the DI-FFAMP with a TZT3 the performance is identical. The DI-FFAMP can only be used with TZT3 while the DFF3-UHD can be used with the newer XL units if upgrading later.

 

[Deep Blue]

LordoftheTides,

When it comes to transducers, I only recommend using "wet-faced transducers" instead of any "shoot-through-the-hull-transducers" for optimum fishing performance. The performance of shoot through the hull type transducers is much like buying a really nice stereo system, then placing it a closet, then having you walk down the hall and placing yourself in another closet while trying to listen to it. You lose both transmit and receive performance when using shoot through the hull transducers.

If you are doing the majority of your fishing within the water column, and you want that good target separation, then I suggest selecting a CHIRP transducer.

However, if you really desire good bottom fishing performance, including fishing deeper ranges, then you should select a fixed frequency "CW" (Continuous Wave) transducer.

- Deep Blue

 

[LordoftheTides]

CHIRP offers it's best avantages in 600 or less ft of water. @Deep Blue can maybe explain that better than I but there are many posts on this forum showing and explaining options. If you want PGB data to update the charts on the TZT3 MFD, you must have a DFF3D and compatible transducer. While the DFF3D offers side scan it is not nearly as impressive in that mode as a dedicated side-scan transducer running. A regular transducer will not run side-scan. A dedicated side-scan transducer is needed. When using the DFF3-UHD or the DI-FFAMP with a TZT3 the performance is identical. The DI-FFAMP can only be used with TZT3 while the DFF3-UHD can be used with the newer XL units if upgrading later.

Thank you for the knowledge. One thing I wanted to question is "If you want PGB data to update the charts on the TZT3 MFD, you must have a DFF3D and compatible transducer" - I imagine this includes the UHD?

 

[LordoftheTides]

LordoftheTides,

When it comes to transducers, I only recommend using "wet-faced transducers" instead of any "shoot-through-the-hull-transducers" for optimum fishing performance. The performance of shoot through the hull type transducers is much like buying a really nice stereo system, then placing it a closet, then having you walk down the hall and placing yourself in another closet while trying to listen to it. You lose both transmit and receive performance when using shoot through the hull transducers.

If you are doing the majority of your fishing within the water column, and you want that good target separation, then I suggest selecting a CHIRP transducer.

However, if you really desire good bottom fishing performance, including fishing deeper ranges, then you should select a fixed frequency "CW" (Continuous Wave) transducer.

- Deep Blue

10/4. Thank you for the response. Correct me if I'm wrong but if the machine is tuned properly & if fishing long enough (experience) - one should be able to distinguish bait from target species with a non chirp (CW) transducer? I struggle to justify CHIRP unless strictly fishing pelagics.

 

[Deep Blue]

LordoftheTides,

Yes, with any transducer (CW or CHIRP), many fish finder operators can distinguish the bait from the target species. Conventional Wave transducers (like CW), acoustic transmission pulse use a single carrier frequency. So, when if the fish (or bait) are close together, (say like in the upper water column) that echo signal reflected back from the fish targets and bait can overlap and merge, and this can places limitations on the transducer's range resolution.

However, when using CHIRP transducers the transmitted signal overcomes those limitations by using a broad range of frequencies that is swept throughout the duration of the transmission, and those pulse fish targets do not merge into a single return, and the fish finder is able to distinguish those individual targets.

I really perfer using CW Transducers for operating in deeper depths, or for looking at fish on or close to the seabed. You can still use CW transducers for the water column, and it works very well. Its just that CHIRP does a better job distinguishing individual targets within the water column. You just have to decide what performance and capability that you want for your specific fishing needs.

For use in PBG and making your own charts with the TZT3, you must use the DFF3D with a B54 Multibeam Transducer.

- Deep Blue