PBG Exchange

[ChrisSEA]

Hi everyone,

Our new boat is almost ready, and we went all in on Furuno. 12" and 9" TZT3s, Navpilot300, radar, pocket mount 165T-L/H ducer, DFF3d. Very excited to get it on the water.

I've been researching the system quite a bit, and one piece of feedback that keeps popping up is charts. Furuno's aren't as good, etc. I know Furuno is working on it, not here to complain or ask about that. I expect the PBG data I'll generate in my area to ultimately be a better solution than any of the mapping data I'm "missing" by going with Furuno. But that will take time.

Which leads me to my question: is there a repository or exchange for "baseline" PBG data, sortable by region? I'm not talking about crowdsourced data (combining PBG files) or anything like that--I know it's not possible.

I'm more thinking, if someone has already mapped the "key" fishing areas in Puget Sound (there aren't that many), I'd love to start from that by importing that file. This is something you'd only want to do at the start, because importing PBG data requires you to erase the tracks you've laid down, and nobody who has a lot of data already mapped will want to do that.

But right now, for new customers like me, I think some kind of a cloud-based file share where we can download "baseline" PBGs would be an interesting idea. And potentially save me a ton of time (and gas). IIf this existed, 'd happily contribute my PBG data once I had a critical mass mapped. I know not everyone would, but there's probably enough of us to make it interesting for new installs. Even better if you could upvote the really complete files.

Of course, this could be a bad idea for reasons I'm not considering (including legal). And it might already exist. Just figured I'd ask.

Thanks,

Chris

 

[Quitsa]

There is quite a lot f discussion on this topic if you do a search. To summarize, while it is possible to share PBG files with other people who have compatible Furuno displays, your MFD can only manage and store a single PBG file. Files cannot be merged or otherwise combined. As you cover more ground with mapping turned on, your unit will add to its file and you will accumulate a larger coverage area. But as noted, you cannot import another file and add that data to what you have on your PBG file -- it will just get overwritten and replaced with the imported file and all your prior mapping will be deleted.

The only way you could get a head start would be if a friend shared a PBG file you could import to one of your MFDs. Then you would be able to see that data and whatever you create would be added to it. But there is no organized system for doing this or a repository of PBG files from which you could download.

 

[ChrisSEA]

Hi, thanks for the response. I understand that it's not possible to merge PBGs, and that the MFD can only utilize one. What I'm asking about is what you note at the end of your mail:

Creating a repository of "starter" PBGs organized by region.

My thought is, why start from nothing if someone else has mapped X% of, e.g. Puget Sound, or the Miami area?

It doesn't sound like anything like this exists. Yes, you can always ping your local friends and colleagues to ask if they have a PBG already started. I'll likely do that. But it would be easy (I think) to set up a cloud share (OneDrive, Google Drive, etc.) where people can contribute their PBGs and note what areas have been mapped. That could help a lot more people have a great first experience with their TZT3/DFF3D.

Just a thought, looking for feedback. I'd definitely be willing to upload my PBG after I have mapped a good % of my local area.

Chris

 

[hiccup]

To add to the discussion, Garmin already does this. They have it integrated right into their ActiveCaptain app. You can choose whether or not to share your data and download other's data and view on your phone/tablet and/or your plotter.

Very flexible, very easy, very useful.

 

[Quitsa]

To add to the discussion, Garmin already does this. They have it integrated right into their ActiveCaptain app. You can choose whether or not to share your data and download other's data and view on your phone/tablet and/or your plotter.

Very flexible, very easy, very useful.

I had a Garmin system for a while. The map sharing available through Active Captain is not in the same league of detail as is generated using PBG. Perhaps my area did not have enough traffic but I noticed that the Active Captain plots were also quite uneven in data quality. I guess I don't share your view that it was very useful.

The big issue with shared chart data is the lack of consistency in quality. That would be extremely hard to fix given all the variables. It's not like sharing waypoints where the GPS data is relatively uniform within a small range of position error.

 

[Jsubzero]

i like pbg the way it is. except would like to share my timezero pbg information to tzt3 if needed. :furuno

 

[hiccup]

I had a Garmin system for a while. The map sharing available through Active Captain is not in the same league of detail as is generated using PBG. Perhaps my area did not have enough traffic but I noticed that the Active Captain plots were also quite uneven in data quality. I guess I don't share your view that it was very useful.

The big issue with shared chart data is the lack of consistency in quality. That would be extremely hard to fix given all the variables. It's not like sharing waypoints where the GPS data is relatively uniform within a small range of position error.

Saying that the PBG (Quick Draw in Garmin speak) sharing available through Active Captain is not in the same league as Furuno is a bizarre statement seeing as Furuno doesn't even have map sharing. I suppose that yes, Furuno not having map sharing does mean that they're not in the same league as Garmin as far as map sharing is concerned.

As far as map detail is concerned--which has nothing to do with the point of this thread--yes, Furuno's system has more detail. Furuno's system is also in a different league price-wise. With Furuno you need to spend an additional ~$4k (+ installation) on top of the MFD & standard transducer. With Garmin, the QD functionality, including sharing, cost $0 on top of the MFD & standard transducer. I think that is an incredibly attractive value proposition (no unbiased person would argue otherwise).

As for the 'lack of consistency', this is really the beauty of it. You don't have to download any maps at all! Or you can selectively download maps, or you can download them all. I certainly do take any maps I don't create with an additional level of skepticism, but I would much rather have the option of downloading them than not. To argue against having these options is nothing but claiming sour grapes.

However, my point was not to get into a debate about Garmin vs Furuno but rather to point out that what the OP is asking for has already been thought through and implemented by a competitor. Their solution works really well and could be seen as a model for Furuno to copy.

 

[Quitsa]

Perhaps my post was not clear. I was in fact making the same point you did, which is that the PBG generated by the DFF-3D is much more detailed than the Garmin MFDs produce and in that sense "not in the same league". Indeed, the DFF-3D is a more costly system for which you get more detail and greater depth range. For many people, that is not necessary nor worth paying the extra cost.

The detail on the Active Captain shared bottom mapping that I downloaded for the area near my home port was very spotty. It may be that in an area with many users uploading data, the Garmin shared bottom maps are a lot better and would be useful.

As for comparing the hardware,I think Garmin makes perfectly good equipment and was reasonably satisfied with the system on my boat, which were the top of the line 8617 MFDs. I had a GT51 transducer for the side and bottom vue, which was okay but really only useful in shallower water. I also had a 25kW xHD2 radar with a six foot open array. It was horrible and the main reason I sold the Garmin equipment and replaced it when the TZT 3 and the DRS25A-NXT were introduced. I had Furuno equipment for 20 years prior to that and always had good experiences, especially with the radars.

I think nowadays all four manufacturers produce good marine electronics. Garmin has always lagged the other three in radar performance in my experience and still does, although they seem to be getter better at least with the Doppler dome radars.

 

[jp498]

Some customers do share and import their Furuno PBG data... Using Time zero Professional computers with PBG module. Not a cheap way to start, but not all that expensive in the realm of medium and big boats. Typically it's a fishing extended family where they help each other out in their fishing success by sharing data. It syncs with tzt3 for many features.

 

[Quitsa]

Some customers do share and import their Furuno PBG data... Using Time zero Professional computers with PBG module. Not a cheap way to start, but not all that expensive in the realm of medium and big boats. Typically it's a fishing extended family where they help each other out in their fishing success by sharing data. It syncs with tzt3 for many features.

Can TimeZero merge multiple PBG files?

 

[jp498]

All day long no problem. This isn't the place to discuss TZ Pro. If you're interested join the facebook group Nobeltec & MaxSea TIMEZERO for Commercial Fishing https://www.facebook.com/groups/393214932134144

 

[hiccup]

Perhaps my post was not clear. I was in fact making the same point you did, which is that the PBG generated by the DFF-3D is much more detailed than the Garmin MFDs produce and in that sense "not in the same league". Indeed, the DFF-3D is a more costly system for which you get more detail and greater depth range. For many people, that is not necessary nor worth paying the extra cost.

The detail on the Active Captain shared bottom mapping that I downloaded for the area near my home port was very spotty. It may be that in an area with many users uploading data, the Garmin shared bottom maps are a lot better and would be useful.

As for comparing the hardware,I think Garmin makes perfectly good equipment and was reasonably satisfied with the system on my boat, which were the top of the line 8617 MFDs. I had a GT51 transducer for the side and bottom vue, which was okay but really only useful in shallower water. I also had a 25kW xHD2 radar with a six foot open array. It was horrible and the main reason I sold the Garmin equipment and replaced it when the TZT 3 and the DRS25A-NXT were introduced. I had Furuno equipment for 20 years prior to that and always had good experiences, especially with the radars.

I think nowadays all four manufacturers produce good marine electronics. Garmin has always lagged the other three in radar performance in my experience and still does, although they seem to be getter better at least with the Doppler dome radars.

I'm not sure why you're veering off topic so much.

The subject of the thread is exchanging/sharing user-generated bottom information. Garmin has a really slick system for doing this. It requires no computer, extra costs, chips, etc. You can selectively download/upload to/from your unit(s) using your phone. It has been implemented for years. Furuno could learn a lot from this.

 

[ChrisSEA]

Thanks for the lively discussion and responses to my original question.

It sounds like there is an opportunity here (in that the functionality is available (to export PBGs and upload them someplace), but perhaps very little interest (not seeing a lot of "ooh, that would be interesting" reactions).

I don't think we need Furuno's support or participation to set up a file share where people can dump labeled PBG files, but if folks think that's not right, let me know. I understand that Active Captain does something like this already, but we obviously don't have that option, so it's a hack or nothing.

I also don't think we'd need to limit this to TZ installs--in the sense that PBGs can be exported from TZT2/3 devices--but please also correct me if that's wrong.

I'd offer to be a customer zero to upload a Puget Sound region PBG, but it's going to take me a year to get enough data logged for that to be useful to anyone, and I don't even have our boat yet, so that's not very enticing.

What I would be willing to do, even at the risk of there being errors in the data, is start from someone else's PBG. As I then traversed the same ground with my DFF3d, I assume my data would override what is the starter PBG, so it's just upside as far as I can tell.

Anyway, thanks for all the feedback, looking forward to more actively participating here as I get to know my furuno gear in the months ahead.

 

[OFFLINE]

Well, I think it is an EXCELLENT idea.

What a great way to get a head start on your own area chart!

It might even be a way for Furuno to tamp down some of the fire people are throwing at them for not having support for multiple PBG files.