New build with Furuno

[BillH]

Hi, I'm getting ready to order the electronics package for my new build- 40' heavy displacement cutter. So far this is what I'm considering-

Navpilot 711-c
700 Processor
Rudder ref.
TZT10x
DRS2DNXT
SCX20
F15001 wind/ 30m cable
Not sure about transducer type. Can the SCX20 be mounted on the mast well below the radar? I have the AP cylinder and pump. Any suggestions?

Thanks!

 

[Johnny Electron]

Generally the recommendation is to have the SAT compass as the highest item on the boat and keep it away from items that put out RF and keep it out of the radar beam. Here is a direct link to the installation manual. Para 1.1 has the installation considerations. It sounds like a nice plan. I would recommend looking under the accessories for the TZT10X at the Transducer tab to consider suitable transducers to consider. Welcome to the forum.

 

[Quitsa]

Hi, I'm getting ready to order the electronics package for my new build- 40' heavy displacement cutter. So far this is what I'm considering-

Navpilot 711-c
700 Processor
Rudder ref.
TZT10x
DRS2DNXT
SCX20
F15001 wind/ 30m cable
Not sure about transducer type. Can the SCX20 be mounted on the mast well below the radar? I have the AP cylinder and pump. Any suggestions?

Thanks!

You might want to look at an ultrasonic type wind instrument. They are generally more reliable and accurate plug right into a NMEA 2000 network. I have the Airmar 200WX, which also gives you temperature and barometric pressure and can serve as a backup heading sensor for the autopilot. It can show both true and apparent wind https://www.airmar.com/Catalog/WeatherStation-Instruments/200WX. Another option is the Calypso sensor https://calypsoinstruments.com/shop/cmi1035-ultra-low-power-ultrasonic-wind-meter-nmea2000-290. That only supplies wind speed and direction over NMEA 2000 and is a good bit cheaper.

 

[jp498]

The problem with mounting it on a mast below the radar is that the view of the satellites might be blocked. Wherever it goes, it should be not at the same height as the radar and should have a mostly unobstructed view. Masts tend to do a nice job separating things vertically, and terrible job separating things horizontally. It's ideal to have separation of antennas as much as possible, which is not always possible. The SCX20 can be mounted on the roof directly if you don't mind a hole coming down for the nmea2000 cable. Just be sure to seal the core material of the fiberglass. Some of the boats I work on, the roof overhangs a foot or more over the back of the house, and I can mount it along the back end of the roof and the wire will not be going into their inside ceiling. Other times, these brackets are used so wire holes do not go in to the house ceiling.

 

[BillH]

Generally the recommendation is to have the SAT compass as the highest item on the boat and keep it away from items that put out RF and keep it out of the radar beam. Here is a direct link to the installation manual. Para 1.1 has the installation considerations. It sounds like a nice plan. I would recommend looking under the accessories for the TZT10X at the Transducer tab to consider suitable transducers to consider. Welcome to the forum.

The hull angle is 17 degrees so I’m thinking the DT 800-20. It seems like a lot of the other through hulls on the 600w range are for smaller boats, like the B60?

The problem with mounting it on a mast below the radar is that the view of the satellites might be blocked. Wherever it goes, it should be not at the same height as the radar and should have a mostly unobstructed view. Masts tend to do a nice job separating things vertically, and terrible job separating things horizontally. It's ideal to have separation of antennas as much as possible, which is not always possible. The SCX20 can be mounted on the roof directly if you don't mind a hole coming down for the nmea2000 cable. Just be sure to seal the core material of the fiberglass. Some of the boats I work on, the roof overhangs a foot or more over the back of the house, and I can mount it along the back end of the roof and the wire will not be going into their inside ceiling. Other times, these brackets are used so wire holes do not go in to the house ceiling.

The cabin top is not feasible. Seems like the mast or the stern pulpit.

You might want to look at an ultrasonic type wind instrument. They are generally more reliable and accurate plug right into a NMEA 2000 network. I have the Airmar 200WX, which also gives you temperature and barometric pressure and can serve as a backup heading sensor for the autopilot. It can show both true and apparent wind https://www.airmar.com/Catalog/WeatherStation-Instruments/200WX. Another option is the Calypso sensor https://calypsoinstruments.com/shop/cmi1035-ultra-low-power-ultrasonic-wind-meter-nmea2000-290. That only supplies wind speed and direction over NMEA 2000 and is a good bit cheaper.

Thanks for that tip. I’ll be going that direction. Probably the Calypso.

Thanks, Bill

 

[Johnny Electron]

The DT800-20 is a smart transducer that provides digital depth and temp but not used by the sounder, nor can it provide any sounding picture. While you can have one of these as part of your system, it wouldn't be a fish finding transducer option.

 

[BillH]

The DT800-20 is a smart transducer that provides digital depth and temp but not used by the sounder, nor can it provide any sounding picture. While you can have one of these as part of your system, it wouldn't be a fish finding transducer option.

Thanks Johnny, I’m not sure I need fish finding capability. I noticed the xl10 supports the ss60 but don’t see the b60. Would that model be a good option? Is there a thru hull with deadrise compensation that you would recommend on for a 40’ sailboat other than the DT800? I’m curious why a transducer would care how long the boat is, but I’m sure there’s a perfectly good reason.
Thanks!

 

[Quitsa]

Thanks Johnny, I’m not sure I need fish finding capability. I noticed the xl10 supports the ss60 but don’t see the b60. Would that model be a good option? Is there a thru hull with deadrise compensation that you would recommend on for a 40’ sailboat other than the DT800? I’m curious why a transducer would care how long the boat is, but I’m sure there’s a perfectly good reason.
Thanks!

On a sailboat, I think you might want to go with a DST810, the newer and improved model DST800. I owned a sailboat many years ago and I think speed through the water is very useful information to have both for sail trim and to easily see the impact of currents on VMG (velocity made good) to your destination. I have one on my boat and it works pretty well in measuring depth down to about 300 feet. If your boat has a solid hull below the waterline (no coring), you could mount an inexpensive Airmar P79 in-hull (Furuno designates it 520-IHC). It does not require any drilling as it is basically glued to the inside of the hull and shoots through. The mount can be adjusted to compensate for deadrise. Driven by the TZT XL, if the hull has no air voids or core, it could measure depth up to 800-1000 feet. Plus it would allow you to use the sounder screen on the TZT XL and see the shape of the bottom, which can be helpful as you navigate shoal water -- and even find fish if you want to catch dinner on your cruises.

The B60 tilted element would also work for you with the XL and is relatively inexpensive ifyou don't mind drilling a hole. It can be had in 20 degree angle to compensate for deadrise. Because it is not shooting through the hull like the P79, it can measure deeper. Airmar claims 1200 feet.

 

[BillH]

Well, after discussing the transducer options and the capabilities of the TZtxl with my wife it looks like we’ll be looking for more than just depth. She likes to fish so sounds like Chirp is the way to go.
Two in hull- p75-c and p79 smart and the B150 thru hull. Any suggestions?

 

[Quitsa]

I am not sure I follow the logic of what you propose. A P75 will just be a somewhat lower performing version of a B150M. You didn't say what sort of fishing your wife has in mind. It makes a big difference in selecting the right transducer.

I think you would be much more satisfied with a DST810 Smart Sensor as a backup depth meter that also gives you water temperature and speed through the water. A good all-around transducer with a tilted element mount might be a B75M or a B175HW, which will be more expensive but give very good performance.

Just an opinion of course, although informed by 50 years of fishing.

 

[BillH]

I am not sure I follow the logic of what you propose. A P75 will just be a somewhat lower performing version of a B150M. You didn't say what sort of fishing your wife has in mind. It makes a big difference in selecting the right transducer.

I think you would be much more satisfied with a DST810 Smart Sensor as a backup depth meter that also gives you water temperature and speed through the water. A good all-around transducer with a tilted element mount might be a B75M or a B175HW, which will be more expensive but give very good performance.

Just an opinion of course, although informed by 50 years of fishing.

 

[BillH]

Thanks Quitsa, our boat was moved to Port Townsend last month for the final fit out.
I’m working with the professionals to complete the various systems. My knowledge on transducers is definitely lacking and the options are immense.
We’re in the PNW so fishing is mainly salmon, bottom fish and crab. Nothing more than recreational and depths at this point to 200’.
I guess depth could increase.
My concern with the dst 810 is the paddle wheel and maintenance. This is not from experience.
Thanks, Bill

 

[Quitsa]

Thanks Quitsa, our boat was moved to Port Townsend last month for the final fit out.
I’m working with the professionals to complete the various systems. My knowledge on transducers is definitely lacking and the options are immense.
We’re in the PNW so fishing is mainly salmon, bottom fish and crab. Nothing more than recreational and depths at this point to 200’.
I guess depth could increase.about $700
My concern with the dst 810 is the paddle wheel and maintenance. This is not from experience.
Thanks, Bill

The DST810 is fitted into a through hull and unscrews from the inside for removal. There is a valve inside the through hull and a blanking plug you put in the hole when you remove the transducer. Cleaning or servicing the paddle wheel is consequently pretty easy if the transducer is accessible in the bilge since the boat can be in the water and you just pull it out to clean. I have had a DST800 and later the DST810 for probably 15 years with no issues. A nice fringe benefit of the DST810 is that it transmits bluetooth so you can use the Airmar app to see the data on your phone and calibrate it. It also provides heel and pitch data over NMEA2000 that might be useful especially on a sailboat for trim.

For those depths and species, I think the best performing fishing transducer option would be a B175HW. They are about $1250. A B75M would be okay too and is about $700. A low cost option that works surprisingly well is a B60, which is only about $325. I have one on my little boat and it shows fish just fine at those depths. It will also give you depth readings down to 1,000 feet or more in low frequency, which is much deeper than the DST810 can read. All three can be had in the tilted element housing to allow flush mounting. Given that it's a sailboat and fishing is not a primary objective, a B60 is probably a good choice if you don't want to have too much of a BOAT thing going (Break Out Another Thousand) in your refit.