Fish Hunter Drive NOT compatible with Suzuki DF350A/DF300B (duoprop) motors due to steering cylinder requirements. Has anyone found a way around this?

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scarfo.j

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Posting a warning to any prospective NAVPILOT 300 users looking to take advantage of Fish Hunter's "Point Lock" feature. After assembling my BOM to set up my new DF300B's with a NAVPILOT 300, I learned from Seastar that the Rudder Reference Unit (FAPAR4502 aka Smart Stick) is not compatible with the required cylinders for these motors. The Smart Stick is the lynchpin of using the "point lock" feature, and without it the prime driver (for me, anyway) of going with this combo is unavailable.

The duoprop Suzuki's require HC6845 "tournament series" cylinders because of their considerable weight and steering torque. After discussing with Seastar, turns out that the required RRU is incompatible due to clearance issues between the larger tournament series cylinders and the motors.

Has anyone tried to do this install and found a way to make this combination work? I can imagine that some custom bracketry might do the trick, but I don't want to dive down an even larger $$$ pit only to find out that I should have gone another route to achieve what I'm trying to do.

Either way, strongly recommend to FURUNO to edit or at least put a note into the NAVPILOT Suzuki Compatibility guide to the effect that it is not FULLY compatible (no spot lock) with the DF300B/DF350A motors.
 
Good information. Thanks for sharing. In talking with SeaStar or Suzuki did they say what outboard RRU would be recommended? I do know a couple of installers that talked about using the FAPAR4502 but it had to be mounted to the boat before the engines were installed on the boat due to restricted spacing.
 
They said that there was none, as this was "outdated technology" (the smart stick) and they had no other recommendations.
 
I feel your pain. I was told to use the 711c due to boat weight and pump size but now learn that the 711 does not support Fishhunter Drive. -The main reason for selecting FURUNO. This is our first experience with Furuno and based on this, maybe our last.
 
@Fish_Hunt I think this is the first time I have heard of a Suzuki Outboard that requires a pump so large that the Navpilot 300 can't drive it. The boat weight is not a factor in determining a pilot pump. It is based on the steering cylinders. What size and how many cylinders do you have? How big is this outboard?
 
I am running twin df350 on a catamaran. Using Seastar steering with P6010 type 1 pump.
When selecting the autopilot, I was told by Furuno tech support that the Navpilot 300 could not handle the amperage of this pump and I was forced to go with the 711. Now it seems the 711 does not have the point lock feature which was the reason for selecting Furuno. I spoke to Patrick at Furuno MD. yesterday and he repeated that the 300 was not designed for "heavy" boats.
 
scarfo.j said:
Posting a warning to any prospective NAVPILOT 300 users looking to take advantage of Fish Hunter's "Point Lock" feature. After assembling my BOM to set up my new DF300B's with a NAVPILOT 300, I learned from Seastar that the Rudder Reference Unit (FAPAR4502 aka Smart Stick) is not compatible with the required cylinders for these motors. The Smart Stick is the lynchpin of using the "point lock" feature, and without it the prime driver (for me, anyway) of going with this combo is unavailable.

The duoprop Suzuki's require HC6845 "tournament series" cylinders because of their considerable weight and steering torque. After discussing with Seastar, turns out that the required RRU is incompatible due to clearance issues between the larger tournament series cylinders and the motors.

Has anyone tried to do this install and found a way to make this combination work? I can imagine that some custom bracketry might do the trick, but I don't want to dive down an even larger $$$ pit only to find out that I should have gone another route to achieve what I'm trying to do.

Either way, strongly recommend to FURUNO to edit or at least put a note into the NAVPILOT Suzuki Compatibility guide to the effect that it is not FULLY compatible (no spot lock) with the DF300B/DF350A motors.
Click to expand...
Dometic now makes a "Smart Cylinder" for the optimus system. The position sensor is built into the cylinder. Since I will likely be converting over to the NP 300 and ripping out the 711C, i will try the Smart Cylinder to get Point Lock.
 
scarfo.j said:
Posting a warning to any prospective NAVPILOT 300 users looking to take advantage of Fish Hunter's "Point Lock" feature. After assembling my BOM to set up my new DF300B's with a NAVPILOT 300, I learned from Seastar that the Rudder Reference Unit (FAPAR4502 aka Smart Stick) is not compatible with the required cylinders for these motors. The Smart Stick is the lynchpin of using the "point lock" feature, and without it the prime driver (for me, anyway) of going with this combo is unavailable.

The duoprop Suzuki's require HC6845 "tournament series" cylinders because of their considerable weight and steering torque. After discussing with Seastar, turns out that the required RRU is incompatible due to clearance issues between the larger tournament series cylinders and the motors.

Has anyone tried to do this install and found a way to make this combination work? I can imagine that some custom bracketry might do the trick, but I don't want to dive down an even larger $$$ pit only to find out that I should have gone another route to achieve what I'm trying to do.

Either way, strongly recommend to FURUNO to edit or at least put a note into the NAVPILOT Suzuki Compatibility guide to the effect that it is not FULLY compatible (no spot lock) with the DF300B/DF350A motors.
Click to expand...
Your cylinders have a flat face on the inboard side. You may be able to attach the FAP6112 to this face and run a connecting rod to the piston.
 
Can you provide a link to your cylinder that you can find online? Looking for "P6010 type 1 pump" resulted in air pumps showing up and I can't see find the cylinder you boat is using. Patrick is right that the 300 is designed for center consoles not very large steering systems. The Suzuki FishHunter mode is designed specifically for newer type Suzuki engines and the steering cylinders are not normally big nor the pumps. It is all about rated current. Have you checked with your Suzuki dealer to ensure your engines are capable of this feature? It is good to check everything before rushing, particularly when doing your own work.
 

​

SeaStar PA6010 Hydraulic Steering Power Assist and AutoPilot Pump 12v 60cu.in.​

Specs:​

  • 12V
  • Autopilot pump size: 60cu.in.
  • Max PSI:1000PSI
  • Typical Current Draw: 4-8 Amps (Up to 300PSI)
  • Cylinder Capacity: 4.9-12.5 Cu.In.
This is on a catamaran so I use a liquid tie bar and do not need a huge pump.

Current cylinder is the Tournament but I am calling Seastar about the Optimus Smart Cylineder, with integrated RRU
 
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Suzuki aside because there are still model requirements and other things there to look at before jumping whole hog; if you have a catamaran, I am guessing your dealer had recommended the 700 series because it has a sailboat mode and the 300 series does not. The core first question can the 300 series electrically power the pump. HERE is a link that shows some of the same basic info that you posted. You would need to find out what peak power draw is and for how long. While the 4-8 amps "Typical" draw falls within the 300 series 10 amp continuous the pump output, the pump might have higher non-typical demands that send that current upwards most do. The 300 series can support up to 20 amps for only 10 seconds. If the pump goes higher for longer; it will blow the driver FETs. If you say you want to give up the sailboat mode offered by the 700; then we can start digging into what SUZUKI products are on the boat now and what would be needed to run SUZUKI Fish Hunter (which was designed for center consoles but might work on a CAT).
 
You make very good points. My initial choice was the 300. Furuno support said that twin df350 should use the 700. In reality, the Seastar catamaran config uses an AP1219 autopilot pump, rated for 1.7L which is very similar to the Furuno Octopus 1.6L. The current draw is 4-8 amps. To prevent overload, an inline 20A fuse would solve the problem.
Let me know your thoughts.
 
Looking at the FishHunter Drive document, 2202 engines serial range 240001 and later with SPC 2.0 controls are needed but that is for the DF350A. Are yours DF350 or DF350A? Have you checked the serial numbers of your engines and verified the model? Once that is checked, the other requirements listed on page 5 should be checked. Many customers find that SUZUKI had put the older BCM on the boat despite the newer engines so they had to get those changed out. We also created the Suzuki setup supplement to help Suzuki customers wade through what we have learned. In general a SUZUKI C10Plus will be needed to setup the number of engines using the new 4-tank gateway then a SUZUKI SMD to finish the setup to put the engine serial numbers into the positions and setup the tank information. We have learned the SMG4s can not setup the new SUZUKI gateway nor can they reset fuel. Suzuki said with the new gateway, the recommend one of their SMD units not SMG. If you have met all hardware requirements then it should work after being configured and using the NP300. I think before you move that direction we should check with product development what they think about using a CAT. It should be fine if you have all the SUZUKI requirements met. I would verify the pump current max because different manufacturers are more efficient than others. You don't want to go through all this to keep popping fuses when the pump is fighting strong currents or something unexpected. It is best to be sure of everything before cutting over that direction. Any questions regarding the SUZUKI equipment is deferred to them but we try to update what we know as we learn ourselves from other SUZUKI customers.
 
Yes, my engines are DF350A, serial 241***.
I will have all parameters checked and likely do the changeover offseason.
Thank you for compiling the setup sheet.
 
Speaking to product development they said if you have all the checkmarks done it should work for you but you want to verify the max on the pump. When fighting waves and stress is on the pump it can go 8 times higher in current than typical depending on the pump. They also said if you are using a liquid tie bar, to ensure to keep it adjusted about every 6 months otherwise CATs can be a real problem in steering. Let us know how it goes. If you have photos, I would love to see it.
 
Johnny Electron said:
Looking at the FishHunter Drive document, 2202 engines serial range 240001 and later with SPC 2.0 controls are needed but that is for the DF350A. Are yours DF350 or DF350A? Have you checked the serial numbers of your engines and verified the model? Once that is checked, the other requirements listed on page 5 should be checked. Many customers find that SUZUKI had put the older BCM on the boat despite the newer engines so they had to get those changed out. We also created the Suzuki setup supplement to help Suzuki customers wade through what we have learned. In general a SUZUKI C10Plus will be needed to setup the number of engines using the new 4-tank gateway then a SUZUKI SMD to finish the setup to put the engine serial numbers into the positions and setup the tank information. We have learned the SMG4s can not setup the new SUZUKI gateway nor can they reset fuel. Suzuki said with the new gateway, the recommend one of their SMD units not SMG. If you have met all hardware requirements then it should work after being configured and using the NP300. I think before you move that direction we should check with product development what they think about using a CAT. It should be fine if you have all the SUZUKI requirements met. I would verify the pump current max because different manufacturers are more efficient than others. You don't want to go through all this to keep popping fuses when the pump is fighting strong currents or something unexpected. It is best to be sure of everything before cutting over that direction. Any questions regarding the SUZUKI equipment is deferred to them but we try to update what we know as we learn ourselves from other SUZUKI customers.
Click to expand...
Seems there are conflicting instructions - between the "Fishunter Drive Doc" and the " Suzuki Setup Supplement. I am using twin DF250AP engines, and latest BCM's and Tank Gateways. Having trouble figuring out how to update SMD12's on board ( 2) and which version of software is compatible. The C10plus gauge was successful today in programming tanks and engines, but still have error codes from NP300.
 
Johnny Electron said:
Suzuki aside because there are still model requirements and other things there to look at before jumping whole hog; if you have a catamaran, I am guessing your dealer had recommended the 700 series because it has a sailboat mode and the 300 series does not. The core first question can the 300 series electrically power the pump. HERE is a link that shows some of the same basic info that you posted. You would need to find out what peak power draw is and for how long. While the 4-8 amps "Typical" draw falls within the 300 series 10 amp continuous the pump output, the pump might have higher non-typical demands that send that current upwards most do. The 300 series can support up to 20 amps for only 10 seconds. If the pump goes higher for longer; it will blow the driver FETs. If you say you want to give up the sailboat mode offered by the 700; then we can start digging into what SUZUKI products are on the boat now and what would be needed to run SUZUKI Fish Hunter (which was designed for center consoles but might work on a CAT).
Click to expand...
Are there settings in the NP300 that reduce the chances of blowing out the driver. I experienced something similar testing Octopus 10-12 on twin DF250AP.
 
If you need to confirm your engine compatibility, please contact Suzuki with any doubts or questions. The engines, the setup, the interface, and BCMs are their products. The only thing needed to support the feature on the Furuno side is the newest software. There are no settings to guard for excessive over current that basically acts as a short. Early 300 pilots (years ago) saw a few issues with well rated larger pumps and that was quickly resolved with one of the first software updates. If you pick a pump listed on our website under the Accessories of the NP300, these have all proven to work within limits. Other brands it is best to check what MAX current is and for how long. "Typical" and "Nominal" are terms to keep users from knowing max current draw. Some companies are better than others at efficiency and not over spiking the power draw.

This thread has been hijacked several times and getting lengthy. This thread is closed to any new comments.
 
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