DFF1-UHD compatible with larger 2 & 3 kw chirp transducers?

[Tailin strange]

Just wondering if the DFF1-UHD is compatible with Airmars 2kw 16 element and 3kw 25 element transducers. I know furuno doesn't market it but I've read that people have used them with no issues. If it does work, why doesn't Furuno advertise that? Is it because the DFF1-UHD really isn't getting all of the potential out of the 2 and 3 kw transducers? same results as the 1kw?

appreciate the help

 

[Snips]

Tailin strange,
The ACCU-FISH and Bottom Discrimination features of the UHD were build around the beam-width specs of the 265LH transducer. Can you use the bigger Airmar Chirp transducers with the UHD, yes you can. However the information from the AF and BD modes will be inaccurate.

Another point to realize when thinking about using these bigger transducers is how narrow the beam widths are. The center frequency of the UHD LF side is 50Khz so if you are using the 109 or 509 series your forward/aft beam-width is only around 8.5 degrees. This narrowness was an issue with the HF side of the 265 and is why we saw the arrival of the wider 275. Now that wider HF side is being adapted to the 2/3 transducers.

When the DFF1-UHD first came out we ran tests using the 265, 109 and 509 just to see what the returns would look like. What we saw was that the returns are harder but much shorter on the LF side due to the narrow beam width.

Snips

 

[Tailin strange]

I'm not too worried about Accufish and Bottom Discrimination, I'm more concerned with the 2 and 3kw transducer performing better than a 1kw b265lh ducer. I have a DFF1-UHD and b265lh on my current boat and love it. My new boat is set to be delivered sometime at the end of this year but might go into January. January is like the worst time to buy electronics because new stuff is usually announced in February at the Miami Boat show. I swordfish a lot in the 1200-1900 ft range but I also spend a bunch of time in the 60-600 ft range and I really want the BEST transducer for those depths coupled with the appropriate black box. Rarely do I ever go deeper than 2500 ft so anything deeper than that is not necessary. I was just wondering if there was a drastic difference in bottom detail and fish marking ability between the 1 and 3kw chirp transducers when mated to the DFF1-UHD. Or if its smart to just buy the 3kw transducer and fish the DFF1-UHD until Furuno comes out with a DFF3-UHD and then swap it out??

What do you mean when you say the returns were harder but much shorter on the LF side due to the narrow beam width? Meaning your marks were more detailed but just didn't show much away from the boat because the cone was smaller? Did the 3kw paint the bottom clearer and mark fish at deeper depths than the 1kw?

thanks for the help and knowledge.
Mickey

 

[Snips]

Tailin strange,
Maybe the screen shot below will help. This was during one of our first tests with the UHD three years ago when we were trying different transducers. Here is how the LF targets compare between a 109 & 265. That gap and yellow band is where I changing the transducers.

Snips

 

[Tailin strange]

I brought this thread back up to ask you another question Snips, I noticed you guys tested the thru hull models only in the 2 and 3kw. Are there any issue with over heating with say an in hull or pocket mount 2 and 3 kw transducer? Does the DFF1-UHD have any fail safe for that or any way to prevent it? Maybe this is a non issue and dumb question but since the transducer face isn't touching the water, I was just wondering.
Thanks

 

[Snips]

Tailin strange,
I asked Airmar about the PM transducers and was advised that they have enough surface area in the water to keep them cool. Airmar also has a series of in-hull Chirp transducers that I have not tested.

Snips

 

[Tailin strange]

yeah I'm more so wondering about the in hull transducers. Its been noted by all of the larger stepped hull center console builders that the in hull 2 and 3 kw transducers perform the best mounted forward of the steps, before the turbulent water

 

[Snips]

On stepped hulls you have very few options. In the past, the aft section ahead of the first step has yielded the best results.

Snips

 

[Snips]

Tailin strange,
You ask to see what the UHD would look like using a 3Kw transducer. Below is a screen shot from a factory trawler that is using it with a 599.

Snips

 

[Tailin strange]

Snips, you the man! Maybe you guys should market that the 2 and 3kw transducers are compatible with the DFF1-UHD. There are many people who decided to go away from Furuno because they thought it didn't. I have Furuno on my current boat with a b265lh and love it and will be going with a full Furuno setup on my next boat that is scheduled to be done in January. The radar portion was a no brainer it was the bottom machine that was up in the air.

 

[Snips]

Tailin Strange,
The UHD-DFF1 has been able to use 2/3kw transducers since a day one. However we didn't really push the fact for a couple of reasons, primarily ACCU-FISH and the Bottom Discrimination modes. These two features require a 265 ducer. Another fact is the beam angles of the existing 2/3kw transducers that are available, which in my humble opinion are on the narrow side. We saw this when we first started testing. This means your targets will come back harder but are shorter (maybe 1/3 the length). The only way to counter this is to (A) use a faster screen advance rate or (B) slow the vessels speed. If you are fishing for Marlin you are probably either using live bait (2-3knts) or lures (8-9knts). Below are how target will appear at 4 knots using 1, 2 and 3Kw transducers.

Snips

 

[Tailin strange]

Snips,
I get what your saying but for me the narrower beam is a good thing. Rarely do I ever need to mark fish in the upper 300 ft of the water column. Generally if I'm marking fish suspended its when I'm catching bait in shallow water less than 150ft and could probably use the HF for this. The narrow cone LF will mark fish better at or near the bottom in 600-2000ft where I generally do most of my fishing for swordfish,tilefish,groupers,snappers, correct?

 

[Snips]

There are many methods for different types of fishing. I am use to using wide beams for Tuna, Swordfish and Marlin. Narrow beams for bottom fish i.e. Grouper and Snapper. Below is another screen shot from the factory trawler in deeper water, the weather is not so good and the vessel is rolling +/- 10 degrees. You can see the affect is has on the targets.

Snips

 

[Tailin strange]

When swordfishing at night I would be interested in being able to mark fish from 0-1000ft but during the daytime its at or near the bottom. Do you feel the 1kw 265lh would do good enough of a job at marking fish down to 2000ft. Granted I know the returns wont be as hard but it should be alright and then you'd also get the wider cone for marking fish in the upper column like you've said and still get the bottom discrimination feature and ACCU-fish.

 

[Snips]

Since you already have a 265LH you probably have a good handle on its capabilities. Bottom detection in 2000ft it will do. But fish detection at 2000ft is another thing using a 265 and I don't have any screen shots to back that claim up. In fact I am still waiting to see a screen shot from one of our competitors that clearly shows a Marlin at those depths using any Chirp transducer. For me going deep is a factor of three characteristics; 60% frequency, 20% power and 20% beam width. Many vessels that I know are using wide (1kw)and narrow (3kw) 28Khz on 295,1150 and 1200 sounders thus getting the best of both worlds. Since the frequencies transmit at the same time there is no interference.

Snips