Complete New Install - TzTouchXL/DRS25NXT/Nav711C/DFF3D Questions/Advice

[BlackGold]

Hello,

Heaps of information here - thank you all! I skimmed through most of it and was hesitant to make a thread but I wanted to put together my findings, my questions/concerns, and get kind of "affirmation" that I'm on the right track. Background - 2002 Pursuit 3800 with current full furuno back from 2002, LOL. Want to go big on the install "one and done" style.

I want to go with (2) TZT16X's.
For radar, I decided to just bite the bullet and get the DRS25ANXT/4. Currently have open-array. I'm looking really to see small buoys/logs/items etc in the water more for safety - the waters here in the Santa Monica Bay don't have much to watch out for but it's more lobster buoys, random **** in the water that I want to avoid.
For autopilot - I have one Seastar BA175-7TM 13.7Cu In. I want to go with NavPilot711C with a PumpOCT16-12, is this the correct way? Asking dealer to remove the PG700 as I'll be getting the SCX20.
Two MCU006H Horizontal Remotes
Now the fun stuff:
DFF3D w/ 165T-B54
B265LH-12P
My fishing style on the west coast ranges to a multitude of different styles. Running the tuna grounds searching from 0'-200' for schools/bait/kelps. Then we could be deep dropping (max 300'-400'). Then, we could be running around kelps by the side of the island in 60-100' lower to 20' chasing white seabass/YT/bass.
Will the DFF3D utilize the 120' beam to "side-scan" in 60' of water to see in the kelps, etc? Will the B265LH interfere with the 165T-B54? I'd want to run both and at High frequency so that i can find the structure then "pinpoint" it with the B265LH with the narrow beam width.
Mounting: I already have two transducers with two fairing blocks - see attached. I'm just going to put both transducers as replacing where they currently are at now, is it OK? Lastly - the B265LH has bottom discrimination, correct? Do I need the DFF1 or will the TZTXL take care of that for me?
Also - the new maps - any idea how the west coast looks like? How can I check?
Lastly - I have mechanical engines - but a company provides a J1939 data conversion and then output to NMEA2000 - if I do that can i configure it to display on the MFDs? Same with Fuel/Rudder position/etc?

Thank you in advance!

 

[Bayhouse]

Lastly - I have mechanical engines - but a company provides a J1939 data conversion and then output to NMEA2000 - if I do that can i configure it to display on the MFDs? Same with Fuel/Rudder position/etc?

Thank you in advance!

I'll chime in on this part of your questions. I installed the Yacht Devices J1939 Engine Gateways on my mechanical (C12) engines and have all the engine data I want on my Furuno TZT3's over N2K. Fuel information like trip data could be better, but it's passable. Rudder position data comes from the Autopilot.

 

[Sparky Wire]

Does this boat have a pilot now? A boat this size would normally be solenoid driven not direct reversible pump.

To get bottom discrimination with the B265LH (excellent transducer) you would need to go with the DFF1-UHD network sounder.

While the DFF3D is effective from 30ft to roughly 1000ft, I don't know what you how much detail you would have on side-scan in kelp. @Deep Blue might be able to comment on that. If me, I would add the new 455hz side-scan to the XL display and leverage that. The detail of the side-scan would be vastly better. DFF3D is a great multi-beam sonar for locating fish targets and bait but it will never compare to the side-scan of a dedicated side-scan at 230Khz or 455Khz.

There will be some cross talk between the DFF3D (165khz) and the CHIRP B265LH fish-finder but that is normally manageable with IR filter setting. Worst case you can always add a KP (key pulse) blanking cable. Most here on the forum found that the cross talk is little and better overall performance to not add a KP cable.

@Deep Blue might also comment on the transducer placements. Ensure that the existing locations have been working well without turbulence issues. Those strakes can be really problematic.

It is sounding like a smoking system.

 

[BlackGold]

Does this boat have a pilot now? A boat this size would normally be solenoid driven not direct reversible pump.

To get bottom discrimination with the B265LH (excellent transducer) you would need to go with the DFF1-UHD network sounder.

While the DFF3D is effective from 30ft to roughly 1000ft, I don't know what you how much detail you would have on side-scan in kelp. @Deep Blue might be able to comment on that. If me, I would add the new 455hz side-scan to the XL display and leverage that. The detail of the side-scan would be vastly better. DFF3D is a great multi-beam sonar for locating fish targets and bait but it will never compare to the side-scan of a dedicated side-scan at 230Khz or 455Khz.

There will be some cross talk between the DFF3D (165khz) and the CHIRP B265LH fish-finder but that is normally manageable with IR filter setting. Worst case you can always add a KP (key pulse) blanking cable. Most here on the forum found that the cross talk is little and better overall performance to not add a KP cable.

@Deep Blue might also comment on the transducer placements. Ensure that the existing locations have been working well without turbulence issues. Those strakes can be really problematic.

It is sounding like a smoking system.

Yes we have a simrad AP22. What do you mean solenoid driven? i know forsure i have that seastar BA175-7TM 13.7Cu In. I know the from the head unit there is a pump/solenoid? that then goes to the engine room into another pump/solenoid? then to the steering cylinder. Will the PumpOCT16-12 not work with this? you recommend i go with PUMPHRP17-12? I'm not sure i understand here.

Check on the DFF1-UHD.

I don't want want to lose the DFF3D and Chirp ducer' for a sidescan - I really don't think I would need it. I just would like to know if the DFF3D still has that wide cone angle at let's say 60-100ft?

Check on the crosstalk - if anything i would be able to locate the structure, make sure im over it, mark it on the plotter, then go back over it with the DFF3D off and use just the traditional ducer, correct? (worst case).

The ducers' now are actually great placements, came with the boat. I have no issues even now with marking structure/fish at 12-16kts.

Also - the new maps - any idea how the west coast looks like? How can I check?

Finally - you reckon I'll get good bottom definition with the B265LH or i would just use the DFF3D to compose the bottom structure and use the B265LH to mark fish?

 

[Sparky Wire]

What is the history of the Simrad AP22? Why is it being replaced? What happened with the pump the Simrad was using? (what model was it?) The pump you have planned sounds fine for cylinder you listed but that boat looks larger than I would expect for that cylinder size. It is always better to think these items out now than to go down the wrong rabbit hole.

DFF3D bottom coverage is twice what ever the depth is so if in 100 ft of water the bottom coverage is 200ft from side to side.

Correct DFF3D target search and FishFinder precision look and hook.

The DFF3D transducer needs the entire 120 degrees clear, where it is placed it should not strike the hull anyplace in that 120 degrees. This is why it's transducer is normally on the keel or very close to it.

You can view the TZ Maps (Vector) using iBoat App. If you have a particular location in mind, give a lat/lon to Tech support and they can get you screen shots.

B265LH will give nice bottom structure and can use either accu fish or Bottom Discrimination features. I say OR because they both should never be turned on at the same time or it messes up everything. You can use bottom discrimination to find the bottom type area you are looking for for the particular fish species and then turn it off and shift to accu fish to help determine the sizes of the targets you are looking at going after. Accu-fish works from 6ft to to 656ft in the DFF1-UHD with compatible transducer. The operational range of BD is the same expect you can't run them both and for BD you must be going 10 knots or less.

 

[BlackGold]

What is the history of the Simrad AP22? Why is it being replaced? What happened with the pump the Simrad was using? (what model was it?) The pump you have planned sounds fine for cylinder you listed but that boat looks larger than I would expect for that cylinder size. It is always better to think these items out now than to go down the wrong rabbit hole.

Exactly why I am asking here. History - ? Came with the boat. No issues we use it every weekend. As for the pump - I’d have to check and get back to you on that. Reason for replacing - just want everything streamlined with furuno. It’s a 38ft sportfish. Seems fine for what it does. Should I go with a larger pump for the 711 to account for possible larger cylinder size in the future?

DFF3D bottom coverage is twice what ever the depth is so if in 100 ft of water the bottom coverage is 200ft from side to side.

Correct DFF3D target search and FishFinder precision look and hook.

The DFF3D transducer needs the entire 120 degrees clear, where it is placed it should not strike the hull anyplace in that 120 degrees. This is why it's transducer is normally on the keel or very close to it.

Ah I see- so the locations that the transducers are on here may cause a bit of an issue. Might have to keel/pocket mount it. That would add room for a (third?) ducer.. or take one out,

You can view the TZ Maps (Vector) using iBoat App. If you have a particular location in mind, give a lat/lon to Tech support and they can get you screen shots.

B265LH will give nice bottom structure and can use either accu fish or Bottom Discrimination features. I say OR because they both should never be turned on at the same time or it messes up everything. You can use bottom discrimination to find the bottom type area you are looking for for the particular fish species and then turn it off and shift to accu fish to help determine the sizes of the targets you are looking at going after. Accu-fish works from 6ft to to 656ft in the DFF1-UHD with compatible transducer. The operational range of BD is the same expect you can't run them both and for BD you must be going 10 knots or less.

If I don’t go the DFF3D way - and just choose 2 transducers to replace the ones I have now, what two transducers would you recommend for my use case? 275LHW and a 265LH? That way I get the wide beam for tuna and the narrow beam for structure fishing in 300ft?

Thanks again!

 

[Sparky Wire]

I like the B265LH with the DFF1-UHD for the fish finder. It would be hard to give up the DFF3D for searching unless moving to CHIRP side-scan where you could put a split pair on rather than deal with the keel. @Deep Blue might have some good suggestions.

 

[hiccup]

No need for solenoid control on your autopilot for that boat. Don't even think about changing the cylinder, it is totally fine. Boat probably came with an RPU80, possibly RPU160 pump depending on if it was outfit at the factory or after it was bought (I know from experience an RPU80 is plenty powerful enough to steer this boat properly, but an RPU160 would work OK too). Either would be fine to reuse with the 711c, not sure where the solenoid talk is coming from? The RPU pumps are very reliable and reusing it would save a bit of $$ on parts and especially installation.

 

[Sparky Wire]

If the Simrad steers well then knowing the pump used will help give extra verification, we are sizing the replacement correctly. You don't want to oversize because it is just as bad as under sizing. The boat looked larger in the photos than 38ft. It sounds like the PUMPOCT16-12 is your answer as long as it matches in the range of the older existing unit. Hiccup is correct that you could keep the existing pump if in good shape and working. Personally unless there was something you really wanted in the integration, I would have kept the entire pilot as it was. They say if it isn't broken, don't fix it.

 

[jp498]

If your AP can turn the rudder with the engine off, it's probably using an electric pump. If you have to have a hydraulic system powered off the engine in order to turn the rudder with the AP it's likely solenoid. Here are solenoid contacts on a hydraulic steering system... Little boats without rudders will use pumps... 25+ foot commercial boats with inboards in my area use solenoids. Our 156 foot 450 ton ferry uses pumps...

 

[hiccup]

RPU80 goes lock to lock in 11s on that boat. Let's not make this more complicated than it is! I have seen this boat set up with both RPU80 and RPU160. RPU80 is fine, but RPU160 will work OK too.

If you want the integration, leave the pump as-is and add a 711c, or heck, a navpilot 300 is sufficient if you do indeed have an RPU80! You'll also want a new rudder reference unit and SCX20 heading sensor.

Enough about solenoids, totally off topic here.