tz touch 3 updgrade on 28 center console

[cameron]

Hello everyone. I am in the process of upgrading all my electronics. I am sold on the new furuno tz touch 3 and I am in the process of identifying the necessary components. I typically fish offshore from 100 feet to 1000 feet of depth and on occasion do the bahamas so seeing deeper will be needed. I have spoken to one of the recommended local vendors for furuno from their site and they seem to have concerns regarding the 3d technology and depth ability. He was explaining to me if I use the tz touch 3 with the drff3 module and "3d transducer" I will likely only read depths up to 600 feet, beyond that he seemed to think this will not be effective. I am not really concerned with using the 3d part of the bottom finder, but I do want to pick up bottom in up to 1200 maybe 1500 feet.

My question is, what is a recommended set up for a center console, with the goal to use the 3d feature and on traditional or chirp, seeing bottom deeper? If possible, using only one transducer.
Thanks for any guidance.

 

[Johnny Electron]

Well the sounder/sonar guys hang out under the fish finder topic area but I will tell you what I know. The DFF3D (Multi-beam sonar) typically gets to about 1000ft and sometimes a tad more. Because of the wide beam is great for location of fish and bait around the boat but isn't going to give you the detail you get with a sounder. I don't think I would ever use the DFF3D as your primary sounder although some do. If you want to have both the DFF3D for location of targets and a sounder for good target discrimination but only install one transducer; that would be what we call a combination transducer. You might think about one of those. I think the one with the B265 chirp elements would give you great targets and still get you down to the 1500 feet your looking for on the LF side. The DFF3D isn't going to get 1500 feet. If you really want to dive into sounder talk, I recommend a new post under the fishfinder topic area.

 

[cameron]

Thanks for the reply. The t3 has a built in chirp, would the 165t - b54 do what I am looking for? This way I can switch over to traditional sonar with the built in 1KW chirp?

 

[Johnny Electron]

I am not clear what you mean. The 165T-B54 is the DFF3D multi-beam transducer only and isn't CHIRP.

 

[Quitsa]

I can share some direct experience since I have been using a DFF-3D for somewhat similar fishing conditions. Johnny Electron is spot on is saying that it would not give you a satisfactory result to use a DFF-3D as your primary sounder.

Think of it this way. The DFF-3D has a very wide beam so in 300 feet of water, the beam is covering an area that might be 400 feet wide at the bottom depending upon the setting. How big would a 5 foot long fish target show on your screen as only 1/80th of the beam width? Pretty small. With a conventional high frequency CHIRP transducer such as a B265LH, the high frequency beam is about 50 feet wide at the bottom in 300'. So that same 5' fish target would be 1/10th of the beam width and be quite visible.

The DFF-3D is helpful as a complement to a conventional sounder in showing you things you would otherwise run past. For example, I do some bottom fishing for cod and black sea bass in 100-150 feet of water. The fish are very concentrated on structure so finding "lumps"-- most of which are not on charts -- is critical. These spots show up beautifully on the DFF-3D when there is nothing on my conventional sounder because I might be 50 feet to one side or other of it. Same thing happens trolling for tuna where I might see a bait ball off to one side that the regular sounder misses.

On a smaller boat such as yours, to me it would make more sense to invest in the best conventional CHIRP transducer you can fit and use the internal TZT 3 sounder rather than spend the money on a DFF-3D and its specialized (expensive) transducer. If you want to deep drop for swords or grouper in the Bahamas, get something like a PM111LH or LHW and have it pocket mounted on your keel for a good clear picture even when on plane and maybe if your budget allows, get a DI-AMP to increase the LF power, which will show you good bottom returns in 2000'+.

Just my two cents but the voice of experience.

 

[DeepSouthTX]

Ill second everthing in the last post. I have a few screenshots here that are in deeper water 200ft more or less. And in illustrates his points about how much smaller just a few fish appear on the dff3d. I always run my main sounder with the Dff3d so I can get the full picture. We have rocks that are in approx 300ft of water. They come up around 20 to 30 feet and the dff3d paints them beautifully. But showing just a couple of 10 to 20lb snapper 280ft deep isnt really its strong point. But if there is a significant amount of fish over one of those rocks it will show them well. And definitely expands the amount of area you can cover when looking for concentrations of fish.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/W25QKaCfhmt8P6yG7

 

[Dougp]

DeepSouth, what transducer are you running on your main sounder?

 

[DeepSouthTX]

DeepSouth, what transducer are you running on your main sounder?

B275LHW


I added a handful more screenshots from today at a local TPWD reef location. Depth 100ft

 

[Dougp]

Fantastic screen shots!! You have made my mind up.

Thanks.

 

[cameron]

What about this one, https://www.furunousa.com/en/products/1 ... -200-ss260
It’s the combo 3D and chirp. This way I could run one screen on the 3D with the 3D module, and the other screen on traditional or chirp.

 

[Quitsa]

What about this one, https://www.furunousa.com/en/products/1 ... -200-ss260
It’s the combo 3D and chirp. This way I could run one screen on the 3D with the 3D module, and the other screen on traditional or chirp.

Not sure if you are aware but the DFF-3D and conventional sounder displays are completely separate. You can set up a split screen on a single TZT 3 that has DFF3-D on one half and conventional sounder on the other. Same as you might do with the chartplotter or radar.

The transducer issue is more of an ease of installation question. It won't affect how the two sounder images are displayed.

 

[cameron]

Yes, I understand I can run a split screen. My question concern is more directed at the best transducer to get the most out of the tzt3 system. I don’t know this answer. The tzt3 has chirp built in, do you also need a chirp capable transducer to use this function? My goal is to be able to utilize the 3D technology (I know I need the dff module) but also the chirp. From what I read, the only transducers are the combo pocket mount ones I previously mentioned.

 

[Quitsa]

Yes, I understand I can run a split screen. My question concern is more directed at the best transducer to get the most out of the tzt3 system. I don’t know this answer. The tzt3 has chirp built in, do you also need a chirp capable transducer to use this function? My goal is to be able to utilize the 3D technology (I know I need the dff module) but also the chirp. From what I read, the only transducers are the combo pocket mount ones I previously mentioned.

Not quite right. The DFF-3D uses a specialized dedicated transducer. You can get that either with a single transducer such as a B54 -- that's what I have -- or with the combo transducer that has both types of elements. You will need a transducer for the internal TZT 3 conventional sounder if you go with a dedicated B54 for the DFF-3D. There are many choices for that. You could have a a single B265LH, a B275LHW with a wider high frequency beam angle, a PM111LH with a big low frequency array for good deepwater performance, or a split flush mount pair such as a B175L and B175H (that's what I have). It's really a question of your budget, what works from an installation standpoint on your boat, and what you are trying to achieve by way of performance.

The internal TZT 3 sounder can use a CHIRP capable transducer or an older style single frequency like a B260. Of course it will only operate with the spread spectrum CHIRP mode with a CHIRP capable transducer such as a B265 or B275.

 

[cameron]

So for my goal being 1 transducer that will provide the 3D module the appropriate data AND provide the chirp data needed for chirp, the pocket transducer seems to have two options. Is that correct?

 

[Quitsa]

So for my goal being 1 transducer that will provide the 3D module the appropriate data AND provide the chirp data needed for chirp, the pocket transducer seems to have two options. Is that correct?

Yes if you want to use just one transducer for both the DFF-3D and the internal TZT 3 sounder, I think that you have two choices. One has the equivalent of a B265LH and the other a B275LHW with the wider beam for CHIRP high frequency. There is also the bigger PM111 but that would not make sense on your size boat unless you get the DI-AMP for the TZT 3.

 

[cameron]

what is the difference between the 265 and 275?

 

[Quitsa]

what is the difference between the 265 and 275?

The high frequency side of the 265LH has a 10 to 6 degree beam width and the 275LHW has a 25 degree beam width. If you want to count the teeth on bottom fish the 265 will provide more detail but its coverage area will be small. In 100 feet of water the high frequency. of the 265LH will have a beam of 18' diameter. The 275LHW will be 44' in diameter.

Bear in mind that you will have a very wide, lower detail beam from the DFF-3D B54 available too.

 

[cameron]

I think the combination of the 265 plus the dff3d running side by side would be more than adequate, most of my fishing is 50-500 feet, then on the deep stuff, the chirp will do the rest.

 

[maxima]

I'm installing the 165T-50/200-TM260 next month. This is the Furuno transducer with DFF3D operating frequency 165 kH and also 1kW, 50/200 kHz, 20/6 ° beam angles for sounder elements - the same as an Airmar B164 transducer.

In shallow waters less than 60ft, you probably get away with just DDF3D to mark fish

In deeper water the 50/200kHz should be good for my 60ft thru 300ft for my area of fishing. after using Garmin and Raymarine Chirp past few years, I concluded that traditional frequency transducer give better bottom details than chirp. If you main target is bottom fishing and looking for structure, I do not think chirp give you an advantage. Let me aks why Furuno don't have a chirp bottom discrimination function? and its dependent on a 50/200kHz?

I won't install this until mid September, waiting for the product to arrive. Let's see the Furuno hype live up to its expectation.......50% of me tell me I will regret...hopefully not the case!!!!!!

 

[cameron]

I was between the ducer you are using and the pocket one I am getting. Pretty much same price - ridiculous for a transducer, but the pocket one has the chirp and bottom discrimination. I felt the pocket transducer would match up with the built it chirp modes and I can maximize all the features. I will be posting results as soon as it is installed and in the water.