TimeZero Pro 4 / DFF3D / PBG - poor bathymetry.

[Wahoo]

Hey guys, greetings from the UK.
I have recently purchased and installed TZ Pro v4 with the DFF3d and PBG Modules and a DFF3D. I have updated the DFF3D software to v1.5.

I'm trying to build up some seafloor maps (PBG) of my local fishing area, but so far I'm unhappy with my results. No matter what settings (TVG) I try, I just cannot get any of my PBG to 'stitch' together to any kind of acceptable level. I can confirm that I do not have any noise issues (spikes) and I believe that my initial start-up settings are correct.

The biggest issue I have is that my PBG appears to slope (get deeper) off to both sides. This is also true when I view the water column display.

I'd be super grateful if any could share some photos of there 'best' PBG they've gathered in TZ. Also any tips on the best settings to use would also be appreciated. Im fishing in 100-120 feet of water. Sea temp here is currently 18celcius.

Kindest regards

Ashley

 

[C-Bass]

Good afternoon Wahoo,

Thank you for your inquiry.

Typically when you see the edges of the swath bend up (like a smiley face) or bend down (like a frown) that is an effect from the sound velocity of water. Below is an example from some WASSP Multibeam Documentation.



There is a setting to adjust the sound velocity in TZ Pro, even though the DFF3D uses Sea Surface Temp to compensate for water temperature sometimes it does not provide all the correction needed to make sure the full swath has the right sound velocity timing. But it is pretty easy to correct manually. Make sure you are over a flat bottom, then go to a full screen section view. Next open up the TZ Pro Options Menu and choose Multibeam. When that Options window pops up, pull it over to the screen and put the top edge just below the white bottom line in the section view. You can use the Options window like a straight edge. Next, scroll down in the Multibeam Window until you see Sound Speed Correction, first make sure the Temp Based Correction is checked. Next, move the slider for the sound speed correction, until you see the edges of the swath (White Line) get as straight as possible. When you are over a flat bottom, the distance between your straight edge (options window) and the white line should be the same distance all the way across the screen.

I provided a photo below, although the bottom in the demo file is not straight, it is angled but it shows you the concept .



Kind Regards,
C-Bass

 

[Aggeloseco]

PBG of maxsea Timezero is not good egnineered, I see very often small rocks in my DFF3D 3D History which are really rocks because I know them, but in the 3D Cube of timezero they are not been shown. I have a lot of examples with screenshots.
The Maxsea v12 was way better in bathymetry, maybe because the one uses Excel data and the other SQL ..
So with PBG of TZ pro dont exprect to sea small rocks etc, just the drops and large reefs

 

[Wahoo]

Good afternoon Wahoo,

Thank you for your inquiry.

Typically when you see the edges of the swath bend up (like a smiley face) or bend down (like a frown) that is an effect from the sound velocity of water. Below is an example from some WASSP Multibeam Documentation.

View attachment 1

There is a setting to adjust the sound velocity in TZ Pro, even though the DFF3D uses Sea Surface Temp to compensate for water temperature sometimes it does not provide all the correction needed to make sure the full swath has the right sound velocity timing. But it is pretty easy to correct manually. Make sure you are over a flat bottom, then go to a full screen section view. Next open up the TZ Pro Options Menu and choose Multibeam. When that Options window pops up, pull it over to the screen and put the top edge just below the white bottom line in the section view. You can use the Options window like a straight edge. Next, scroll down in the Multibeam Window until you see Sound Speed Correction, first make sure the Temp Based Correction is checked. Next, move the slider for the sound speed correction, until you see the edges of the swath (White Line) get as straight as possible. When you are over a flat bottom, the distance between your straight edge (options window) and the white line should be the same distance all the way across the screen.

I provided a photo below, although the bottom in the demo file is not straight, it is angled but it shows you the concept .



Kind Regards,
C-Bass

C-Bass,
My sincere apologies for this late reply. A HUGE thank you for taking the time to offer such a detailed answer to my problem. I managed to get down to the boat yesterday to install a SCX-21 sat compass and I've also followed your advice and adjusted the swath curve to a nice flat line (Although I didn't see the white line you talked about? Is this a Wassp feature?). I hope to get afloat over the next few days once the weather settles to test things out. I'll share my findings on this thread. Once again, THANK YOU for taking the time to help me out- its grately appreciated. All the best!
:jump

 

[Wahoo]

PBG of maxsea Timezero is not good egnineered, I see very often small rocks in my DFF3D 3D History which are really rocks because I know them, but in the 3D Cube of timezero they are not been shown. I have a lot of examples with screenshots.
The Maxsea v12 was way better in bathymetry, maybe because the one uses Excel data and the other SQL ..
So with PBG of TZ pro dont exprect to sea small rocks etc, just the drops and large reefs

Aggeloseco, apologies for my late reply, but thank you for taking the time to reply. What depth are you fishing in? I too have noticed that detail isn't being recorded in TZ but I'm hoping now that I've learned to adjust my swath curve and that I've also installed a furuno scx21 sat compass that things will improve.... watch this space!

 

[Aggeloseco]

Hello, my pleasure to share opinions with other Furuno members.
I usually fish from 60-130 meters, so the small rocks which are sufficiently being showed in the 3d bottom history , are not showing in the PBG..
I have some videos of my setup you can check it here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhnsqOH ... Economides

 

[Wahoo]

That’s a nice video, thanks for sharing that. Here in the UK I’m typically fishing in 20-40m. It’s the rocks that are important for me to be able to map in detail. If I can’t see the rocks, then I can’t find the fish....

 

[Aggeloseco]

The same with me, I bought the software , PC, Monitor , sc33, which everything cost more than 12k just to map the small rocks, and it doesnt work. I have a lot of examples, small series of rocks which i know that they are there, they are shown well in tzt 3d history , but they are not showing at all in PBG - 3D Cube on TZ Pro software.
I was telling that to a representative of Maxsea in an exhibition, and she told me PBG is working fine , they dont intend to do any upgrades

 

[Wahoo]

Same here, I’m about £8500 in so far... If it doesn’t do what it promises it can do then I’m going to return it and get Wassp instead. But, in the mean time I will remain positive!

 

[Aggeloseco]

Wassp cost about 25 000 ..

 

[Aggeloseco]

For example here is a nice small reef- rock, which it always has a lot of life on it, unfortunately, it is not showing on the PBG, I have a lot of such examples.
I showed this stuff to Maxsea but they say, PBG is not for such details, it doesn't need to be upgraded.

 

[Aggeloseco]

It's a pitty , because firstly they don't say that when you buy the software and secondly, is these details which give us fish..
I am really dissapointed from the PBG , I dont recomend it to anyone because I think you investing 10-15K and you don't get what Furuno can give you..

 

[Snips]

Try turning your Terrain shading up. Below is one at 0% and another at 100%.

Snips

 

[luke343]

Maybe change the range on the pallet as well? 40m colour ramp on a small rock will never show much. Your mark seems to be in a 10-20m depth range?

 

[Aggeloseco]

I tried changing a lot of parameters.. unfortunately no luck

 

[nrgbentall]

Hi
Just wondering if you guys ever manged to get any decent detail from dff3d PBG and timezero?

Or is this a limitation of the software? if so what sort of detail can I expect less than 1m?

How much more precise are the data points with wassp that are actually recorded?

Thanks for any info, before I spend money on a system that may not be upto it
Nick

 

[philo]

Try turning the PGB brush size down to 1 or 2

 

[C-Bass]

I have replayed some data showing what brush settings can do to small elevation changes in TZ Pro. Brush settings should be reduced to a small value to get better resolution on small elevation changes.

 

[Johnny Electron]

Locking this old thread down as Nobeltec has their own support.