DRS25A/NavNet 3D "no radar"

[zigzag930]

About 2 years ago I purchased a used DRS25A/NavNet 3D 12"MFD, PSU-13, HUB101 system and associated cables.

I set this system up in my garage to test it prior to installing it on the boat to verify it worked properly.

At that time, working with the support guys at Furuno, we determined that the power on sync signal was not functioning so the PSU/HUB/DRS25A did not turn on. I was told to install a jumper J7 on the PSU to force power on of those devices.

Once I installed the jumper, all units powered up and the system has worked flawlessly ever since it was installed on the boat.

About a month ago, I powered on the system and received the "No Radar Detected" message. I powered down and restarted the system a few times and then the radar was found again. This problem is now persistent. I have to power down and restart the system 8-10 times to get the radar to detect.

I have run a replacement ethernet cable from the Hub to the Radar and that does not solve the problem. Sometimes it works, sometimes it shows No Radar Detected.

The entire system (MFD, PSU, HUB and DRS25A) are powered on by a single 24V 30amp breaker (which I have even changed to be sure power was good).

I have discussed this issue with Furuno by telephone twice (two different techs) and receive completely different information each time, but neither tech was able to assist. One rep told me that having the jumper installed will NEVER work with the NavNet 3D. Clearly that isn't so as this has worked well for 2 years. Another tech suggested that this was a communication issue, which we already know, but didn't have any suggestions on how to troubleshoot other than to call a radar service company.

I have to say that I always loved the support guys at Furuno and have praised/recommended Furuno products to others based on fantastic support. But this time, I feel a bit let down, so thought I start a thread here to get some definitive assistance in how to narrow down what is happening, etc.

 

[Johnny Electron]

The Jumpering of the power supply is designed only for NON-NN3D installations. The design of the NN3D uses power sync and that signal sends to the power supply and turns it ON as the system turns ON and OFF when the system turns OFF. While it can work with the jumper it will be problematic (as you have found) because the timing of the radar power and NN3D MFD power needs to be the same time. With the jumper hard wiring the power to stay on, the timing will be off and the radar will sometimes get power and time out before someone comes along and powers up the MFD. In a system where a hub is needed the NN3D must have the HUB101 to pass the power sync signal. While putting the jumper in help your problem and shows your installation has a power sync issue, the correct way would be to fix the power sync process and remove the jumper from the power supply. It is possible you could leave it as is and reduce the issues by upgrading the radar software but it most likely will never be perfect until you change it to be as it was designed to be used. The NN3D is getting to be a big long in the tooth so not all the younger techs have as much experience but both were correct. One was trying to get your radar working and the other was trying to explain that it shouldn't be left with the jumper in place on a NN3D system due to power up timing.

 

[zigzag930]

Thank you for the quick reply. So, in the past when I powered the system up - I would turn on the breaker, then within a minute or so, turn on the MFD. That had worked fine. Now, when I turn the power on (breaker) I do try to turn the MFD on within 1-2 seconds of the breaker. As mentioned, sometimes this works - but most often not.

If the power on sync is not working, I would think the problem could be in either the hub or the MFD? Is there any way to tell? I can do a ethernet trace to look for the command if that would help.

As to the second suggestion, how can I upgrade the radar software to see if that helps?

Also, can you clarify this for me? I thought the DRS25A used a fixed IP and did not need DHCP services. If that is the case, why would the timing be so critical?

Thank you.

 

[Johnny Electron]

The DRS25A does not have a fixed IP address. In the NN3D system the "master" DHCP assigns the ip address. If the MFD master fails to do this within the window of the DRS25A turning ON, the radar will time out and not talk. Radar software and instructions are posted under the product at our website (www.FurunoUSA.com) in case of the DRS25A it appears there have been no updates. It has been the other model NN3D radars that had updates. The DRS25A came later, so the changes came out with initial software. It sounds like you are mostly having a timing issue because the NN3D power sync hasn't been sorted out properly.

 

[zigzag930]

Ok, so lets then focus on how to isolate the power sync problem. For starters, can I bypass the HUB101? Can I substitute a regular hub for testing (especially considering I have the Jumper still in place for Power on Sync). Can I send you a ethernet trace from the MFD and from the PSU or HUB?

FYI: When I initially installed the system a few years back, I replaced the RJ45 connectors on both ends of the cable to start with nice clean connectors. I did however wire them using only the 4 required wires and they are wired straight not crossover. I was told that is fine as the HUB101 will do any necessary detection and crossover.

 

[Johnny Electron]

A regular hub doesn't pass power sync. You can reduce the items on the network and conduct a direct MFD to radar connection and power sync will work. Power sync requires 8 wire ethernet up to the radar power supply. 4 wire is okay for the radar cable. Straight or Cross-over will work because all the NN3D ports are auto sensing.

 

[zigzag930]

To confirm, I can remove the HUB101?

Would I plug the radar into the PSU or the MFD if I remove the hub? If the 1st option, it sounds like I'd need a 8 wire from the MFD to the PSU, then 4 wire from the PSU to the radar? Are you saying the PSU will turn on with power sync if connected this way?

 

[zigzag930]

Can you please explain the Power on Sync functionality?

ie. which devices use this in my setup? MFD12 (sends it correct?) Does the HUB101, PSU13 and DRS25A all see this signal? I assume it is not an ethernet packet, but a signal level asserted on pins 4&5?

 

[Quitsa]

Years ago when I had a boat with NavNet 3D displays and a DRS6A radar, we just set it up without the power synch and HUB101 using a conventional ethernet switch that cost 90% less. As I recall, I just turned on each of the two NN3D displays and then powered up the radar and it worked fine. Something to consider.

 

[zigzag930]

Quitsa, thanks for that info. I'm trying to understand the timing of network and power sync. From what I gather, the MFD12 acts as a DHCP server, so it should assign an IP to the radar. I"m not sure if there is a specific time frame that assignment must happened within, either on the radar or the MFD. In my case, when I turn the breaker on, all devices MFD12, PSU13, HUB101 and DRS25A receive 24vdc. I've had an issue with the Power on Sync not turning on the PSU, so someone at Furuno said to just jumper J7 to permanently power the PS on (when the breaker is on). This has worked for over a year, but now I am having intermittent issues with start up of the system not finding the radar.

 

[Sparky Wire]

The Master MFD acts as a DHCP server but the system also has power sync and those are two different things. Power sync is like POE but not the same. It sounds like you might need to engage a dealer to get your power sync working properly. NN3D system requires a working power sync for any system with more than one MFD, period. It was how it was designed. The jumper J7 was for TZT series one and above to keep the power supply ON with the breaker. It is not for NN3D. Newer DRS units self assign their IP. Power sync is no longer used on the newer systems. The NN3D radars need to get the DHCP assignment in the first couple of minutes of power ON or they won't talk to anyone. Power sync insures correct timing not only for the radar but also the other MFDs which must come up at the same time for proper synchronization.

 

[Johnny Electron]

I think everything that can be said has been. Following the design is recommended but as your hardware it can be done however you wish but Furuno staff only supports in how it was designed to function. If you are able to find something that works for you, more power to you.