Depth Value Freezes

[RickVicik]

On a recent trip, my depth display froze at an impossible value (1500' in charted 600'). Powering everything off for a few minutes didn't fix it. My destination was in ~10' (depending on tide), so I was concerned. Powering everything off overnight fixed it, but it froze again on the return trip after ~1hr.

Speed-through-water and sea-temp continued to update but depth (and the fish-finder display) was frozen. The LED on the BBDS1 blinked green about every 2 seconds. I pulled power from the BBDS1 (but not the TZT19Fs) for 10sec, but that did not fix it.
I rebooted both TZT19Fs (but not the BBDS1) and it started working again, although it failed ~1hr later.

My BBDS1 uses a 525STID-MSD transducer which incorporates STW & SST. The BBDS1 is connected to the TZT19Fs via a HUB101.

I was hoping that the symptom of a frozen depth value and fish-finder display (rather than no value) would indicate which component was the likely culprit.

On the other hand, since the TZT19F appears to support the 525STID-MSD transducer directly, would the best solution be to eliminate the BBDS1?
---rick

 

[Johnny Electron]

Before you do anything; I would suggest checking into what the data source screen shows for the "Current" depth source when the depth is locked up. See what is shown as both Preferred and Current and when locked up; try changing your depth source to something else. This would be a clue maybe to what you have going on. Yes, you can connect that transducer directly to the TZT3. Have you checked the software version of the BBDS1 to ensure it is running the newest software?

 

[RickVicik]

Thanks for the info. I'll check the data source next time it happens.

The BBDS1 software version is 0252379-01.01:0252378-01.01. I found a software update for BBDS1 using TZT and TZT2, but not TZT3. I couldn't find anything that listed the version of the update or how to install it.
---rick

 

[Johnny Electron]

The update for TZT2 works exactly the same for TZT3. They use the same program. I would recommend running the full network sensor update so that other items on your system can be checked for newer software also. You can find that software here at our parent company.. https://www.furuno.com/en/support/uploader_auth
That update has 2.01 for the BBDS1 included inside it. Instructions and software are posted there.

 

[RickVicik]

Thanks for that info. The update worked perfectly. My BBDS1 is now 2.01.

Since the freeze never occurred at depths less than 200', I won't know if it is fixed until I get back out in 600' of water. I will report back when I can do that.
---rick

 

[Johnny Electron]

:jump :jump

 

[RickVicik]

Since a 12pin adapter came with the TZT19F, I tried connecting the 525STID-MSD transducer directly to the TZT19F. The display says "No Connection". I specified the transducer model in the setup and changed the preferred data source to TZT. Going through the BBDS1 still works.

Is there something else I need to change to use the transducer directly? I'd like to have that option if the freeze occurs when I'm able to test it in deep water. If the transducer is the cause, I'd like to have a replacement on hand when the boat is hauled for maintenance.
---rick

 

[Johnny Electron]

Because each display has an internal sounder, you must ensure you have picked the correct internal sounder as your fishfinder source. You might have been looking at a diffrent sounder without transducer connected. I recommend nicknaming the displays so you can go under the fishfinder menu and pick the correct source at the top, before you attempt to configure the transducer.

 

[RickVicik]

That was it! The TZTs are now labeled port and starboard. The transducer works fine when connected to the correct TZT. I'm now well equipped with things to try if it freezes again.
Thanks!
---rick

 

[Johnny Electron]

:jump Well done!

 

[RickVicik]

My depth finder problem never occurred in <200' of water before, so I was surprised when it happened today while tied up to the dock. The depth value did not freeze like before but instead alternated between impossible values and dashes. The not freezing could be due to upgrading the BBDS1 software from V1 to V2.01. While depth value was alternating, Depth DataSource alternated between BBDS1 and TZT. The green light on the BBDS1 was flashing roughly every 2 seconds during all this. Changing the transducer to go directly to the TZT19F fixed everything. Changing back to the BBDS1 brought the problem back, so it is clear my BBDS1 is the problem.

Will I be losing something by using the TZT19F directly vs. going through the BBDS1? I use it only for basic depth and also bottom discrimination for anchoring.
---rick

 

[Johnny Electron]

It sounds like the BBDS1 is on auto range and something caused it to drop bottom and start seeking/searching. When this happens I would recommend setting the sounder to manual range to keep it from jumping and seeking. You might get some videos showing the bottom screen when this happens. For the most part the internal sounder of the TZT3 is very similar to the BBDS1 or DFF1-UHD but on steroids when using the DI box. It is up to you which you prefer to use.

 

[RickVicik]

I decided to use the TZT internal sounder instead of the BBDS1 because that limits the possible sources of problems to either the transducer or the TZT. Also, if I suspect the TZT, I can switch to the other TZT.

The behavior on a trip yesterday is confusing. The depth number froze but the fishfinder display continued to scroll and showed the depth decreasing on the side graph consistent with the charted values on my path. The frozen incorrect depth number was repeated on the data box on the other TZT and on an external NMEA2000 display. I tried switching to HF and back, then going to standby and back and that got the depth numbers correct again.

I recorded some other confusing behavior today while tied up in about 10' of water. The video is on dropbox. It is 5 minutes long with periods of nothing happening, but that is the only way I could capture the sudden jumps. I didn't change anything during those jumps. The only changes I made are captured in the video such as when I changed range from auto to manual which didn't help. I changed to standby and back which didn't help. Then I changed several things and it started working, but changing them back didn't cause it to stop working. Changing to the other TZT didn't help. Any advice will be appreciated.
---rick

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7rjj74wadlvjx ... 7.mp4?dl=0

Additional information: In the cases using the TZT instead of the BBDS1, the problem seems to occur after ~3hrs of continuous operation. Today (28May), setting to manual range didn't fix it but setting to Standby for ~5min did fix it.
Another potential clue: The bottom discrimination ribbon on the display works fine before the problem, but after the problem, even when I get the depth value working again, the bottom discrimination ribbon is all white with no green separator line. If I disable bottom discrimination, the fish finder display expands to fill the screen as expected.

 

[Johnny Electron]

Looking at the video it appears that the boat is in very shallow waters and you are using LF freq which is used for deeper waters. When in very shallow waters, HF should be used. The video also reflects that it is in auto mode. If you have problems getting the bottom, you should try manual mode and force the range to shallows so that the auto features isn't wasting time by searching deeper depths at other ranges. If you don't see a bottom drawn the system won't provide you a depth number to what it can't see. Allowing it to looking at 3000ft depth in 10 feet of water won't really work.

 

[RickVicik]

I use Low Frequency most of the time because the reported depth agrees with charted soundings in water from 10' to 1000'. It has been working that way since 2014 and still works that way now except when it has a "bad mood".

The problem can happen in deeper water but I'm usually too busy running the boat to capture a video. The video was taken while tied up in 10' of water. At 1:52, I change range to manual and at 2:22 set range so 10' is mid-scale. At 2:31, it decides to change range to 3000', ignoring my manual setting.

Another datapoint: when it is working OK, I get a good bottom discrimination display with green demarcation line and red accuracy graph. When it is not working, I get a blank white ribbon. The image shows the good bottom discrimination display changing to blank white ribbon.
---rick

 

[Johnny Electron]

Auto range is a diffrent setting than auto fishing/cruising/manual. To keep it from seeking and changing ranges, I would go manual range.

 

[RickVicik]

I thought I was changing range to manual at 1:52 into the video. Here are images from the video showing what I changed before and after my change. Should I be changing something else?

About 20 seconds after changing to what I thought was manual range and setting it so the bottom was clearly visible, it changed range to 3000' (2:31 into the video).

How can it do that if range is set to manual?
---rick

 

[Johnny Electron]

Because you have your bottom search mode turned on.

 

[RickVicik]

I finally got to try the suggestions of turning off "bottom search" and using HF instead of LF. It worked perfectly for hours at a time during the last 4 days in water up to 800' and at speeds of up to 20kt, but I can't understand why.

Switching back to LF didn't cause the freezing problem to reappear. Setting range, gain & interference rejection back to auto, which is where they were when the problem occurred, didn't cause the problem to reappear. "Auto range" grays out "bottom search", but I set it off in manual range just to be sure.

The only things I can think of that changed between having the problem and working OK are:
1. I did a "factory reset" in sounder setup
2. boat was hauled and transducer inspected, no damage or growth found

HF produces a much clearer image than LF for my purposes. I've attached a dual frequency image as an example.

 

[Johnny Electron]

Yeah, that is looking sweet. Nice job! Very big drop off your have there. :respect